Trying to break a stalemate
July 12th, 2011
01:39 PM ET

Trying to break a stalemate

Washington (CNN) - The two sides seem as far apart as ever as they try to reach a deal to raise the debt ceiling. All of the negotiators agree they don't want to see the U.S. default, but how they get to any agreement is unclear.

After the second meeting in as many days among the principal negotiators, congressional leaders were tasked with talking to their members, crunching some numbers and coming back with new ideas about how to bridge their differences and reach at least $600 billion more in budget savings - the approximate amount in deficit reduction needed to get a hike in the debt ceiling approved in Congress, multiple officials familiar with the ongoing talks tell CNN. Republicans have said they would only consider a debt hike if a bigger amount in budget savings was attached.

Since the idea of a grand deal was abandoned over the weekend, the leaders have gone back to the outlines of negotiations chaired by Vice President Biden, which lasted just under two months, as they try to craft a deal before August 2nd. But those Biden-led talks ended up breaking down at the end of June over the same issues that killed the later sessions involving the President and Speaker John Boehner in trying to craft a major deficit reduction package - how much to cut in entitlements and the White House insistence some revenue increases be part of any package.

So when the congressional leaders come back to the White House Tuesday afternoon will they bring with them fresh proposals - or will the same old ones and their philosophical differences simply be re-hashed?

The President has said he and the leadership will meet every day until there is a deal.

Republicans are pushing for an agreement that would include $2.4 trillion of savings over a decade, which would be tied to an increase in the debt ceiling through 2012. There is great political benefit in that: both parties would not have to vote on this tricky issue again before next year's election.

In Monday's session, according to Democratic sources familiar with the talks, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor laid out about $1.7-1.8 trillion cuts in cuts previously identified during the Biden-led talks: $1.1 trillion in cuts in so-called discretionary spending - the part of the budget funding non-defense, non-entitlement programs; $200 billion in spending in mandated programs - such as civilian and military retirement, farm subsidies; $200 billion in mandatory health programs such as Medicare. Those savings would equal about $1.5 billion, and it is believed will generate about $200-300 billion in savings through less interest payments on the deficit. Complicating the formula, Democrats aren't convinced they can pass a package that includes those cuts.

At one point in Monday's meeting some of the Republicans were saying that ending oil and gas tax and other subsidies would kill jobs. The Vice President, according to Democratic sources familiar with the meeting, said "C'mon guys, let's get real" arguing this is an ideological, not an economic position and saying ending such items would not kill jobs.

Republicans have consistently opposed in these meetings any type of revenue increase - whether it would be closing loopholes or the more drastic ending of the Bush-era tax cuts on the wealthy - arguing it would hurt the economy.

In the previous talks between the President and Speaker Boehner, when they were aiming for a major deficit reduction deal of $4 trillion over a decade, Mr. Obama did discuss raising the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67 as part of a larger package of entitlement cuts and new revenue, Democratic sources familiar with the discussions confirmed. However, it was only a proposal discussed the sources emphasized as part of a larger deal which was never reached.
Also discussed in the earlier talks between the President and Speaker, according to sources, was the idea that the tax cuts for the wealthiest would be allowed to expire at the end of 2012 and not be renewed. Congress would embark on major tax reform next year so the GOP would have cover saying they favored raising tax rates. As an inducement to Republicans this reform would include overhaul of corporate rates.

When the President on Monday invited the leaders back to the White House for a meeting Tuesday at 3:45, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid asked "am or pm?" according to Democratic sources familiar with the meeting.

The President, according to these sources, said "we might get to that."

CNN Senior Producer Kevin Bohn contributed to this story.


Topics: Budget • Debt Ceiling talks • The News

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soundoff (56 Responses)
  1. California Conservative

    From Sen. Obama’s Floor Speech, March 20, 2006:

    The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

    July 12, 2011 at 2:04 pm |
    • Howard

      ASPECTS OF AMERICA THAT GOT WORSE UNDER OBAMA:

      Record mortgage foreclosures
      Record debt
      Record deficits
      Record borrowing
      Plunging home prices
      Surging commodity and food prices
      Surging gasoline prices
      Surging HealthCare premiums
      A broken SS and Medicare system kissing bankruptcy
      Surging tuition costs
      Record household bankruptcies
      An economy stuck in reverse
      Near 10% unemployment
      4 hot wars
      Wars against states–more than half
      Unsecured boarders
      Union thuggery and union goonery
      Stagnant incomes for those lucky to have jobs
      Record negative trade balances
      Excessive regulation
      Planned massive tax hikes
      Plunging global prestige

      SAVE AMERICA ... IMPEACH OBAMA !!!

      July 12, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
      • jean2009

        Bring G. W. Bush up on war crimes against the American people.

        July 12, 2011 at 7:48 pm |
      • John

        Jean, we have seen some really stupid comments from you in the past, but this one takes the cake. You know what is funny – you say this problem is all Bushs fault – given that reasoning, shouldn't the elder Bush get the credit for what you libs say were great times during the Clinton Administration?

        July 13, 2011 at 8:26 am |
      • kefa34

        pray for our president pray the power of jesus work in him
        pray good things pray G-DS Will over the lives of all our leaders.

        July 26, 2011 at 11:49 pm |
      • kefa34

        under what law should the president be impeach
        please let me know so I Can know
        mean time we need the faimly of faith to start praying
        and be mineful that the power of jesus is real.
        he here us he sees us he lives in us ,

        July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am |
      • NurwahidaMakmur

        Where do these goof-ball Republicans get off holding the crntuoy hostage and demanding cuts to Social Security Medicare? These pricks raised the retirement age and made us pay more into the system back in the 80 s to cover Reagan's massive tax breaks and out of control spending. And what did they do, they took the surplus and spent it. Take a look at Ryan's budget, we'll have debt of 23+ trillion in 2021 10 years. Then the Repubs will look to rob us again. The Pentagon-Pig is the problem.

        April 3, 2012 at 6:04 am |
      • Rosiller

        CRA had nothing to do with it. If those loans to lo-income pepole were fixed, this whole mess wouldn't have happened. And CRA sure as hell don't have anything to do with Adj, Rate Mortgages. And no one forced banks to make loans. Those banks were making a killing. They had no risk, they were dumping that shit onto the market to suckers all over the world. They would've kept going forever if they could. When interest rates wen't up pepole couldn't make the payments market crashed

        April 4, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoQ4ujxsNjc&w=640&h=360]

      July 12, 2011 at 7:43 pm |
    • jean2009

      A little late to be complaining about pushing the debt can down the road you should have spoke up when GW Bush started two unfunded wars. The bills were incurred and the money borrowed to wage those wars...so pay up.

      We have a revenue problem. Cut the Bush era taxes for the top earners.

      July 12, 2011 at 7:43 pm |
      • Jay in NC

        The total cost in dollars of both wars is $1.2 trillion over the past 10 years or 120 billion per year. The deficit is currently $1.5 trill a year.

        President Bush debt climbed from $6 trillion to $10 trillion (8 years).
        Barry the debt climbed from $10 trillion to $14 trillion (2 years).

        http://costofwar.com/en/

        July 12, 2011 at 7:54 pm |
      • jean2009

        You do realize the interest on the Bush unfunded debt is about $400 Billion a year?

        This from USA Today article dated: Oct .25,2007 – War Costs May Total $2.4 Trillion by Ken Dilanian.

        WASHINGTON — The cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could total $2.4 trillion through the next decade, or nearly $8,000 per man, woman and child in the country, according to a Congressional Budget Office estimate scheduled for release Wednesday.

        A previous CBO estimate put the wars' costs at more than $1.6 trillion. This one adds $705 billion in interest, taking into account that the conflicts are being funded with borrowed money.

        The new estimate also includes President Bush's request Monday for another $46 billion in war funding, said Rep. John Spratt, D-S.C., budget committee chairman, who provided the CBO's new numbers to USA TODAY.

        Assuming that Iraq accounts for about 80% of that total, the Iraq war would cost $1.9 trillion, including $564 billion in interest, said Thomas Kahn, Spratt's staff director. The committee holds a hearing on war costs this morning.

        "The number is so big, it boggles the mind," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill."

        July 14, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • jean2009

      You said it the Republican leadership has failed, they allowed G W Bush to raise the debt ceiling 5 times and kept on borrowing for wars.

      July 12, 2011 at 7:46 pm |
      • Jay in NC

        That is right, just as Barry said back in 2006, it showed a leadership failure. Now he has also failed.

        July 12, 2011 at 7:56 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        As you can plainly see the President has nothing to do with the debt limit. If that were the case then why all this hubbub about it now? Given that as a starting point .... It is congress... but take a look at the real numbers....

        On Jan. 20, 2009, the day Obama was inaugurated, the portion of the nation debt subject to the legal limit (a small portion of the debt is exempted from the limit) was $10.568142 trillion. By April 19, 2011, the portion of the national debt subject to the limit had increased to 14.268365 trillion. That means that during the first 821 days of Obama’s presidency the debt increased by $3.700223 trillion—or $4.5 billion per day.

        July 12, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
      • kefa34

        Dont let anyone capture you with empty
        philosophies and high-sounding nonsense
        that comes from human thinking and from the
        spiritual powers of this world rather than from
        christ.

        July 27, 2011 at 12:19 am |
    • Bill in STL

      Seriously? After all the attacks from the democrats... who are now finding that it is not as easy to talk yourself out of the recession you talked yourself into........ Wake Up Jean

      July 12, 2011 at 8:18 pm |
      • jean2009

        The recession started seriously in 2007...again who was president in 2007? Who was president in 2008? So, who talked us into it, or took us into it? The failed presidency of George W. Bush. Don't try rewriting history with me.

        July 14, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Not trying to rewrite anything ..... the house was controlled by democrats in 2007 and the senate was 49 49 with 2 independants tended to vote with democrats.... So no history re-write there.. prhaps you are trying to re-write it?

        July 14, 2011 at 11:35 pm |
  2. Mary Abrahamson

    Republicans stop protecting the lobbyists and protect your constituents. Tax the weatlhy – we the middle class are trying to make ends meet – gas pricing on the rise AGAIN. The threat of taking away social security and medicare benefits are heavy on our shoulders. Have the Federal Government take cuts instead of us!

    July 12, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      Have the federal government take the cuts? how do you propose to do that? reduce politicians salarys? benefits? reduce our capacity to defend ourselves? social programs? Infrastructure? whats left after that?

      July 14, 2011 at 11:38 pm |
  3. 4merCTRepub

    @Howard

    Thank you for providing the best laugh I've had in weeks. I will use your post as an example of leaping generalization, vague reference, and unsupported assertions. Where are the facts? The assumption that all of this has occurred in response to a half-term presidency is ludicrous, and further demonstrates the utter lack of intellect or economic understanding among many Americans.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, for so beautifully proving the need for higher academic standards for students.

    July 12, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • jean2009

      Thank you.

      July 13, 2011 at 11:13 am |
    • Jay in NC

      Oh wise one, please tell us what statements Howard made that are untrue? Yes, and please include your proof, would not want to think you were unintelligent.

      July 13, 2011 at 11:54 am |
    • Bill in STL

      Dear 4mer, your post illustrates your point.... The need for education for most Americans, yourself included. Take a hard look at what is going on in this country and tell me how it is any better because of President Obama. The national debt increased almost as mubh in the first 2 years of this adminstration as it did under the previous 8 year of the former administration.... This seems to me to be a common sense issue, not surprisingly common sense is a commodity that is in short supply with most liberals. The latest debt ceiling deal will break the record.... In less than three years this administration will have raised the debt by a figure that will eclipse the previous administration ... the figure which jean so kindly posted for us... However she left out the current administrations figures ... why is that?

      Okay I have given you facts ,,, Where are yours ... not just glib rhetoric ... the problem is this .... you wont accept the fact that the liberal party is just as wrong headed as the conservative pary..... in this are anyway,

      July 13, 2011 at 10:21 pm |
      • Muhammad

        I saw this information reespnted last year by the Washington Post too. It was a more detailed breakdown of the presidents, the programs they were responsible for, and the impact on the debt. It all adds up. The fact that George W. Bush enacted massive tax cuts was a huge hit to our deficit. He told us that dropping taxes would encourage growth in the economy and net us tons of new jobs that never really happened. I think we should have detailed and reasonable conversations to take us back to the tax levels during Ronald Reagan's era. Also, the fact that George W took us into two wars was also another huge hit.

        April 2, 2012 at 12:54 pm |
  4. Bill in STL

    Now we hva fear mongering today from our belioved president.... If we don't go further in debt then we can't guarentee Social Security checks and others will go out on 8/3/2011.... In other words be very afraid of the GOP. What a total bunch of BS!

    July 12, 2011 at 8:09 pm |
    • kefa34

      G-D opposes the proud
      but favors the humble.

      July 27, 2011 at 12:27 am |
  5. Bill in STL

    A quote from Winston Churchill ...

    A nation that tries to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. – Winston Churchill

    July 12, 2011 at 8:11 pm |
  6. Bill in STL

    This just in from the Heritage foundation... well 9/2010 ... its nor rocket science.... just plain common sense

    Center for Data Analysis economists estimated the likely economic and fiscal effects of the Obama tax plan by introducing it into a model of the U.S. economy that leading government agencies and Fortune 500 companies use to produce economic forecasts.[7] This economic model, which covers FY 2011 to FY 2020, produced results that are displayed in Appendix 2 of this Report. The Obama tax plan would result in:[8]

    Slower economic growth: Inflation-adjusted gross domestic product (GDP) would fall by a total of $1.1 trillion between FY 2011 and FY 2020. GDP in 2018 would fall by $145 billion alone. The growth rate of the economy would be slower for the entire 10-year period.

    • Fewer jobs: Slower economic growth would result in less job creation. Employment would fall by an average of 693,000 per year over this period

    238,000 fewer jobs in the critical economic recovery year of 2011;
    In one year alone, 2016, job losses top 876,000.
    • More unemployed Americans: Slower growth in employment translates to a higher unemployment rate, which would rise more each year during the 10-year period than it would without the Obama tax hikes.

    In other words, for Americans who are unemployed now, their prospects of employment would worsen under the Obama tax plan.

    July 12, 2011 at 8:16 pm |
    • jean2009

      One half of our current national debt between 2009 and 2019 is due to the interest owed on previously borrowed money. Just the interest on the debt for 2008 was $451 Billion, 2009 – $383 Billion, 2010 – $414 Bllion
      Even before the economic crisis, the U.S. debt grew 50% between 2000-2007, ballooning from $6-$9 trillion. The $700 billion bailout helped the debt grow to $10.5 trillion by December 2008. That was to bailout the rich on Wall Street.

      Bush's two term increase in the national debt.

      Now that the George W. Bush era has finally ended, we can do a tally of the national debt he has left to us, our children, and our grandchildren:

      When Bush was sworn in on January 20, 2001, the national debt was $5,727,776,738,304.64.

      When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08.

      The growth in the national debt during his eight years in office: $4,899,100,310,608.44.

      The average yearly growth in the national debt during Bush's presidency: $612,387,538,826.05.

      During much of Bush's tenure, he had a Republican majority in both the House and the Senate.

      He claimed that tax cuts would pay for themselves – they did not. He claimed that tax cuts would result in growth – we are in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

      Let us hope that once the economy rights itself, we will find the political will to insist that we pay what it costs to run this country. We need to do it as a general principle of what is right for America, and not empty words conditioned upon every citizen agreeing with how every dollar in the government budget is being spent.

      What George Bush did to this country profoundly weakened us. We worry about the effect of spending a trillion dollars to bring us back from an economic precipice because, during times of relative prosperity we were sold a bill of goods about how our budget would be balanced at some time in future, despite all evidence to the contrary.

      There can be no more "magical thinking". No more tricks of accountancy. No more ignoring the costs of our aging population. This time, when we restore our economy to some semblance of health we need to pay as we go, not borrow as we cross our fingers.

      Dollar figures from Debt To The Penny, and US Economy at about com

      July 13, 2011 at 11:10 am |
      • Bill in STL

        And in 2 years Under President Obama the debt limit increase is almost what it was for the 8 years of President Bush. How does that even out? What happend under President Bush in 8 years will be surpassed this year when the latest debt deal is done. How can you justify that? we still have a year and a half to go....

        July 13, 2011 at 10:11 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        And what Barack Obama has started will destroy us... If you want to stop the magical thinking ... then stop it from both sides. About.com is not the most reliable source ... The heritage Foundation is far more accurate and less politically correct

        July 13, 2011 at 10:40 pm |
      • jean2009

        The Heritage Foundation is a conservative right-wing-nut site. So much, for any fair and balanced reporting there...they are sort of like Murdoch's crooked news..

        July 14, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        about.com? Owned by the New York Times a left wing radical nut organization.... so?

        July 14, 2011 at 11:41 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        If you can post from such a left wing owned organization at least I can post from and organization that mkes no bones what they are.... again SO?

        July 14, 2011 at 11:42 pm |
    • jean2009

      “Thomas Sowell is the worst of the right wing nut-bag-o-­sphere,con­tinually spouting "studies" from AEI and the Heritage Foundation et.al. Like Bill Maher says you can't call it a "think tank " if all your ideas are stupid”

      July 14, 2011 at 4:22 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        at least they advertise what they are unlike about.com..... You present liberal owned and operated sites as nuetral... you can't be that naieve?!?!?

        July 14, 2011 at 11:44 pm |
  7. Liz Carter in Georgia

    @4merCTRepub; Good post. LOL! I agree.

    July 13, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
  8. Liz Carter in Georgia

    That's right Jean! WAR CRIMES! Jay, Candidate Obama also said in 2008, when he was asked about that 'No one is above the law'! What about that? Obama said things may get worse before they got better; he told us they were going to try different things, if one thing didn't work 'we'd' have to try something else. Did you all just ignore that or did you convieniently forget that? So you can all act all shocked and disgusted that things aren't picking up as fast as you 'politicians' thought they would?!?

    July 13, 2011 at 3:35 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      Then I think that you need to be brought up on war crmes youself Liz... YOu are conductin a war here at home, a war of words directed against a segment of the American public. One that you and people like you would like to silence in any way possible.... Tell me Liz would you consider genocide to ensure your point of view is the only surviving point of view? You seem to be extremely volitle on this subject... Do we need to worry that you will and your liberal friends will go all Stalin on us and decide to execute your own PURGE? You sound just like the accounts I have read of the organizers of the Russian Revolution.

      July 13, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
      • jean2009

        READ: at Judiciary Report dated Thursday, July 14, 2011
        http://www.judiciaryreport.com/how_george_bush_destroyed_the_US_economy.htm

        How George Bush Destroyed The U.S. Economy

        ...And The Congress That Let Him

        September 27. 2007

        July 14, 2011 at 3:37 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        really? a rueters site???? another undercover liberal propaganda machine????

        July 14, 2011 at 11:48 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      And your are right he did say no one is above the law... Is that why GITMO is still there and the military tribunals are taking place? If I were a terrorist I would want my trial in a US court of law ... that way I have a sure thing on aquittal.

      July 13, 2011 at 10:38 pm |
      • jean2009

        You don't get it do you? A mess was created that will take as long as the Reagan mess to correct.

        BUSH-REPUBLICANS DESTROYED AMERICA, AND OBAMA IS DOING A GREAT JOB FIXING IT

        Between Jan 20 2001-2009 under president Bush’s leadership:

        Unemployment doubled from 4% to 8.8%
        National debt doubled from 5.7 trillion to 10.7 trillion
        Yearly budget went from a 236 billion surplus to a 1.2 TRILLION deficit (a 1.4 trillion drop)
        Dow Jones plunged 25% from to 10,587 to 7949
        Losing 700,000 jobs monthly
        Economy in total free fall

        SOURCES:
        BUSH MORE THAN DOUBLED UNEMPLOYMENT FROM 4% TO 8.8% —–(Jan 2001-2009)
        (Source: US Dept of Labor – Bureau of Labor Statistics-)
        (http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=LASST39000003)

        BUSH DOUBLED OUR DEBT FROM 5.7 TRILLION TO 10.7 TRILLION
        (Source: US Treasury Dept – Bureau of Public Debt – http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np)

        BUSH TURNED A 236 BILLION BUDGET SURPLUS INTO A 1.2 TRILLION DEFICIT (A 1.4 TRILLION DROP)
        (Source 1: CBO – Congressional Budget Office – Historical Budget data – Shows the 236 billion surplus in 2000)
        (http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/historicaltables.pdf)

        (Source 2: Congressional Budget Office – Annual budget and economic report and testimony before Congress on Jan 8, 2009) (Declares 1.2 trillion deficit for fiscal year 2009 —2 weeks before Obama takes office)
        (http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9958/01-08-Outlook_Testimony.pdf)

        (Please note: The fiscal year 2009 started Oct 1, 2008 under president bush. At that time, the 2009 deficit was projected at 600 billion. Then the banking crisis occured in Oct 2008 and bush started a 700 billion TARP bailout program which was added to the 600 billion deficit which left obama with a 1.2 Trillion deficit the day he took office according to the CBO)

        BUSH OVERSAW A DOW JONES THAT PLUNGED 25% OVER 8 YEARS
        (Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=^DJI)

        July 14, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        I get it ...

        Lets look a little closer at your sources and what they really say

        Unemployment did not start ot rise until aug of 2007 at which time it was 6.1 percent. roughly teh same time as the hoursing market problems. All courtesy of more afforable housing ala Bill Clinton. People that should never have gotten loans were able to.... starting in oct 2007 the sub prime housing crisis began and that was all about affordable housing. Interestingly enough the democratically controlled congress was in place and the unemployement rate continue to climb throughout the next 4 years...

        Source Beauru of labor statistics (unemployment) http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

        Source housing crash Forbes.com

        Budget surplus was destined to go away due to the change in financing from long term to short term debts. This allows intrest adjustments faster ... Thank you W. J. Clinton just like people with ARMS the united states government debt was/is financed in much the same way ....

        The dow drop was inevitable due to fiscal policies instituted by W, J. Clinton since they were mostly at the root of the collapse. When people lose money theyfind a safe place to put it ... simple logic ... However that time is a very good time to invest... I personally did fairly well by doing the time tested buy low / sell high formula.... while others were complaining much the same way you are .....

        The Debt limit increase was 5 trillion in 8 years under president Bush ... to fund the efforts to stop terrorism and limit the ability of terrorists to cause the kind of damage they did on 9/11. President Obama has raise the debt limit over 4 trillion in 2 or so years ... simple math says that he will have raised it by 8 trillion if he keeps going at the same rate ... prevailing heads (even on CNN) predict that 2.5 trillion will get him past the election ... so that would mean that in 4 years President Obama will have raised the debt limit b appx 6.5 trillion.... InNay of 2010 the CBO revised its estimate up 115 Billion dollars for the cost of Obamacare... and it has been revised upward again .. this tells that the CBO models are not all that reliable... If you depend on that as a source you might be a liberal.... its all out there ... I get so tired of arguing with you ..... you are the same old party line person that I hold in extreme disgust ... Democrat or Republican

        July 15, 2011 at 12:24 am |
      • Bill in STL

        Don;t even want to talk about TARP ... It was a failure from the getgo .. and it was supported by both adminstrations.... You do realize of course that members of congress get an automatic pay raise no matter if they do good or bad? they acutally have to vote to stop it... Like that is going to happen ... they are no better than wall street. It is all about the money ... Wall Street or Politics ..... If it were not then PAC's would not be effective.

        July 15, 2011 at 12:27 am |
  9. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Whatever it takes Bill to wake you toads up! I'm not conducting anything! I'm just putting the unadulterated, bottomlined truth out here and if anyone of honor, wisdom, discernment, knowledge, and experience hears me they'll mostly likely respond positively to my assessment of the true devious Heart & Soul of Americas supremacy as it relates to what's happening, even in our political struggle today! If people are in denial, because it seems easier to swallow, they'll respond negatively, like you do!

    July 15, 2011 at 12:40 am |
    • Bill in STL

      And so there you have it. The true liberal position... "what ever it takes" to:

      Silence the portion of the people of this country that are not honorable, ignorant, incapable of discerning, stupid and in experinced. Genocide, purges much like those underthe reign of terror in the soviet union under Joesph Stalin.

      This is what they will do to silence anyone that does not see things their way, JUST LIKE Joesph Stalin.

      'nuff said!

      July 15, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
  10. Liz Carter in Georgia

    OK John! Mr Political Man; the one who doesn't focus on just one side of the political spectrum; the one who demands people not to denounce nor support just one party; the one who keeps initiating a brawl with me and when he gets it below the belt, turns to distorting my words into something that could be percieved as politically synical, to destroy my character. It's not working! You're just like your Murdock-owned cablenews favorite fair & balanced con-job station. Editing to give a certain perception!

    July 15, 2011 at 9:58 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      The intelligent usually spell that cynical... not synical

      July 15, 2011 at 10:04 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      Then perhaps you can explain whatever it takes to the world in response to my post.... I asked you a question and you answered .... "whatever it takes to wake you toads up."

      Please explain, is it perhaps that you don't know (or did not know) who Joseph Stalin was? Or what he did? Maybe you did not understand the word genocide....

      Please explain to all what you meant, put a good liberal spin on it for us!

      July 15, 2011 at 10:07 pm |
  11. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Bill, I've said to you many times before, you can 'twist' my opinion into whatever 'synical' political view you like, but I stand by view. Yes, I know who Joseph Stalin was and what he did; Hitler did the same thing! They actually did get rid of their adversaries and 'treasonists' permanently and I don't believe in that type of governing. They weren't Democratic forms of governments. They were tyrantical dictatorships! However, that same mindset is how I see this whole GOP! Treasonists against the people.

    July 18, 2011 at 11:47 am |
  12. Liz Carter in Georgia

    About you questioning of my intelligence for my inadvertent mispelling cynical with synical, that's one below the belt coming from YOU, buddy! Check these out: On 7-12-2011, 8:09 pm ET 'guarentee'/guarantee, 'hva'/have, 'belioved'/beloved; 7-12-2011, 10:36 pm ET 'crmes'/crimes, 'conductin'/conducting, 'youself'/yourself; BTW, I was agreeing with Jean on 7-13-2011, 3:35 pm ET. You came after me! 7-14-2011 11:38 pm ET 'prhaps'/perhaps, 'whats/what's, 7-14-2011 11:44 pm ET 'naieve'/naive. Intelligence, huh?!?

    July 18, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
  13. Liz Carter in Georgia

    I admit that I mispelled cynical, and have probably mispelled a few other words, Bill, but from reading your posts all this long, I KNOW you aren't EVEN the one to point a finger at anyones' mispells! Oh, you should never try to guage their intelligence by it; You must not be TOO intelligent if that's the case, Mr Man! LOL! 7-15-2011 6:19 PM ET You didn't even spell Stalin's right; 'joesph'/Joseph! You edited my comment to say I was referring to YOU, I guess as ignorant and stupid. Well! If the shoe fits...

    July 18, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
  14. Paul

    Where do these goof-ball Republicans get off holding the ntucory hostage and demanding cuts to Social Security Medicare? These pricks raised the retirement age and made us pay more into the system back in the 80 s to cover Reagan's massive tax breaks and out of control spending. And what did they do, they took the surplus and spent it. Take a look at Ryan's budget, we'll have debt of 23+ trillion in 2021 10 years. Then the Repubs will look to rob us again. The Pentagon-Pig is the problem.

    April 3, 2012 at 6:54 am |