It's over!  Dueling statements from the speaker and the president
December 22nd, 2011
06:08 PM ET

It's over! Dueling statements from the speaker and the president

House Speaker John Boehner on Thursday announced an agreement with Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid to extend the payroll tax cut for two months.  Afterwards both Speaker Boehner and President Obama released statements.

House Speaker John Boehner:

Senator Reid and I have reached an agreement that will ensure taxes do not increase for working families on January 1 while ensuring that a complex new reporting burden is not unintentionally imposed on small business job creators. Under the terms of our agreement, a new bill will be approved by the House that reflects the bipartisan agreement in the Senate along with new language that allows job creators to process and withhold payroll taxation under the same accounting structure that is currently in place. The Senate will join the House in immediately appointing conferees, with instructions to reach agreement in the weeks ahead on a full-year payroll tax extension. We will ask the House and Senate to approve this agreement by unanimous consent before Christmas. I thank our Members – particularly those who have remained here in the Capitol with the holidays approaching – for their efforts to enact a full-year extension of the payroll tax cut for working families.”

President Barack Obama:

For the past several weeks, I’ve stated consistently that it was critical that Congress not go home without preventing a tax increase on 160 million working Americans. Today, I congratulate members of Congress for ending the partisan stalemate by reaching an agreement that meets that test.

Because of this agreement, every working American will keep his or her tax cut – about $1,000 for the average family. That’s about $40 in every paycheck. Vital unemployment insurance will continue for millions of Americans who are looking for work. And when Congress returns, I urge them to keep working to reach an agreement that will extend this tax cut and unemployment insurance for all of 2012 without drama or delay.

This is good news, just in time for the holidays. This is the right thing to do to strengthen our families, grow our economy, and create new jobs. This is real money that will make a real difference in people’s lives. And I want to thank every American who raised your voice to remind folks in this town what this debate was all about. It was about you. And today, your voices made all the difference.


Topics: John Boehner • President Obama • The News

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soundoff (48 Responses)
  1. S.Positive

    This is how the GOP will lose again in 2012. They just don't get it...

    December 22, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
  2. Niko_in_Richmond

    Of course the Republicans are trying to spin this as if they have won something. The fact of the matter is that they finally realized that public opinion was not on there side. They were starting to look like the obstructionists that they are. About time they have decided to put the American people ahead of their own political objectives.

    December 22, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
  3. Mrs. J

    There are more middle-class and poor Americans than there are rich and wealthy, when November 2012 comes around the entire House of Rep will be Dem and so will the Senate, and Obama well he already has my vote. The only way to accomplish anything here I see is to have the right party in office. GOP will have middle class and poor Americans living like we in Somalia or something. Shame on you.

    December 22, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
  4. Obayashi

    GOP/TP loves drama. I hope the speaker will hold his tears and will enjoy his holiday season wi th a red wine and his favorite flavor merlot.

    December 22, 2011 at 7:21 pm |
  5. Jay in NC

    Lose again? Didn't they win big in 2010? It may be over for House Speaker John Boehner but not the GOP.

    December 22, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
    • Trace

      .....and Down Goes Frazier, Down Goes Frazier – LOL.

      Jay, How does it feel to be the only clueless person in the room ?

      December 22, 2011 at 10:31 pm |
  6. Risky

    Lets get one thing straight for all you confused people. The republicans only agree on this tax cut if they get their stupid mario sized pipeline (im sure its bigger than that). Obama is all for the tax cut, but does NOT want the keystone LX attached to the bill. The 2 month agreement is to delay the keystone project because he doesnt want our air to end up like Hong Kong, where you have to wear a mask just to breathe outside; and I definitely dont want that either. So thats something to think about for you misinformed individuals.

    December 22, 2011 at 8:39 pm |
  7. Rick McDaniel

    In the end, this battle has just begun......and it won't end until the end of February, and it is going to be a nasty fight, before it is over.

    December 22, 2011 at 11:16 pm |
    • Trace

      Rick Mc,

      You would NEVER be one I would accuse of being aware of the optics of this "folding" by John B. But, since you are blind to everything obvious, let me point this out.

      Press Conference #1 John B and his Tea -Pot buddies stand tall and say we won't accept this compromise

      Press Conference #2 John B standing all by his lonesome, giving his mea culpa.

      Oh Sorry Rick, you probably don't know what that is. It Means GOP/Tea Trolls = LOSERS

      It sure will be nice when you get a clue. If you think the optics of this is going to look any better for the GOP/Tea-Potties I got news for you. It was rather obvious to all but the patently stupid, the GOP/Tea Brand is a mess and only imbeciles support the slash and burn practices of these un-american trolls.

      December 23, 2011 at 10:48 am |
  8. Debbie

    OMG! Boehner just doesn't get it. "Job Creators?" Really? Did he really use that term that everyone knows is a flat out lie? What he means is Norquist is ruler of GOP. The defacto dictator to be?

    December 22, 2011 at 11:34 pm |
  9. Don

    Bhoner, we all see quite clearly who you work for now – and it ain't us! If the GOP has any sense they'd replace you as Speaker ASAP, so long Leatherface!

    TGIF

    December 23, 2011 at 7:28 am |
  10. sara

    He made his "defeat' speech all along...where were all of his "Henchmen" in the end. Those rodents scurried by to their holes. A win for the American people.

    December 23, 2011 at 7:31 am |
  11. Don

    CNN, PLEASE...Pretty Please – no more close-ups of Leatherface, OK. After a week like this, the dude needs a fresh sandblasting and a fresh coat of Orange-Glo.

    TGIF

    December 23, 2011 at 8:59 am |
  12. the99%willhavevictory

    Boehner tried to make his statement sound like he's saving the day. Next year will be a totally new game.

    Obama/Biden 2012

    December 23, 2011 at 9:12 am |
  13. C-Lo

    Thank you Speaker Boehner and all House Representatives for doing your best to provide a 1 year solution instead of a band-aid and sticking to your through on your jobs for the American People, taking the only way out the hostage takers in the Senate would allow.

    I know the haters here will continue to throw their insults (including personal) and will refuse to give thanks to all of you for fighting for a longer term solution. Oh, well, "Let them eat cake."

    December 23, 2011 at 9:41 am |
    • Don

      C-lo, if the GOP wanted a 1 yr extension so badly, why did they include the "poison Pill"? Why did they load it with GOP pork-barrel – especially the XL Pipeline (compliments of American Petroleum Institute lobbyists)? The GOP made the 1 yr extension UNPASSABLE. But you knew that...

      TGIF

      December 23, 2011 at 9:55 am |
    • Trace

      C-Lo,

      No name calling for you My Good Good friend, but you can't be that lost on this one.

      The congress has been working on this for 6 months. The GOP/Tea-Trolls in the House rejected the one yr deal the Dems proposed. It went to the Senate and McConnell compromised to two (2) months. Did you miss all that?

      What do you mean Thanking the House Tea-Potties for trying to get a one year....THESE UN-PATRIOTIC AMERICANS WANTED ZERO COMPROMISE.....And you are celebrating that intransigence?

      Come on fella....I thought you were a reasonable person

      December 23, 2011 at 10:53 am |
      • C-Lo

        Thanks for keeping it civil with me Trace...truly appreciate it!
        Fact of the matter is the media always spins these stories to the left–and in all truthfulness, I know my "take" on it was spun to the right, but only in an effort to bring the pendulim back toward the middle. Usually I try to take any story I read/hear, and re-write it from the opposite point of view–great exercise in critical thinking. And it doesn't hurt that I am a "righty" and most of the press is left of center.
        Try it yourself with Fox News. I'm not asking you to "accept" the reporting on Fox, as I know your bias, but listen to a report, read the headline, and take the same info painted into a positive light for the left.

        Merry Christmas, my friend. And happy New Year!

        December 23, 2011 at 11:10 am |
      • jean2009

        @C-Lo Middle really? You are so far right that for you the middle would be a distant land.

        December 23, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
      • C-Lo

        @ Jean–I know you feel that way, because your extreme left views make the middle equidistant from you. What I would like to know is one place I have dispalayed a fascist comment. Believing in limited gov't is FAR from fascist (as you've tried labling me in the past).

        The frustrating thing for me is that there are SO many leftist/socialist countries Libs like you could go since that lifestyle is so wonderful. Most European countries speak enough English, you wouldn't even have to learn a second language–and there is always Canada (just stay away from Quebec). But the US has been the only place that has historically embraced a more limited roll of Gov't.

        By the way, I was reading that this year has been a banner year for farmers with above avg prices and crop yields. Many are out buying new cars, homes and equipment. What are your thoughts about subjecting them to a windfall tax. After all, we all have to eat and suffer the high prices they are charging on their production. Or is this only fair to industries you villify? Just currious.

        Regardless, I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas (oops, sorry too far right) I mean Happy Hollidays!

        December 23, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
      • C-Lo

        By the way, Jean, where did I claim in that post I was in the middle? I said outright that I spun it to the right to keep the PENDULUM in the middle. But I know you wouldn't know anything about that as everything you reference is from some leftist blog or other "progressive."

        Please name any one way you ever try to look at things from te other side of the fence.

        December 23, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
      • jean2009

        @C-Lo Maybe I should have said for you to swing anything back toward the middle first you would have to come to what used to be considered the right! In today's world Theodore Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln would be considered very liberal.

        So you want me to provide a source that is not liberal...well here goes.

        Try George Donnelly's Libertarian website post for August 20, 2010 the topic:
        "The Teaparty Could Bring Fascism to America" @ http://georgedonnelly.com/libertarian/tea-party-fascism-america

        December 23, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
      • jean2009

        @ C-Lo I think you absolutely proved my point...anyone who doesn't agree with you should move to some other country...that in and of itself is the purist form of being a fascist. Sinclair Lewis said that "If Fascism ever comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag" he forgot to add religion. In other words, if we don't believe like you, agree with you, or allow ourselves to be controlled by your whims about ruling our bodies, or our religion then we can be banished.... or worse.

        FYI ....This country has never embraced a "more limited form of government" ....that is only the myth used as a rallying complaint when the so called Rethugliklan party is our of control of the presidency, and legislature. Whenever they are in control it is greed as usual, with wild spending deficit spending on things that do not benefit anyone but the rich.....like amassing military arms and war profiteering, etc.

        December 23, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
      • C-Lo

        Ah...there's the Jean we all know and love. Yes, I can see where you would misconstrue my points about "moving to another country." That is how it came across, but not precisely how I meant it. As far as "ruling your body" I assume you're talking about abortion. I've already made my point there previously, but at the same time, MOST abortions are not the result of rape or incest. They should have "controlled their bodies" before that consequence, and what about them "controlling the body" of the unborn child?–I could go on, but I'll leave that for another day.

        Regarding the "myth" of a more limited form of gov't–YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!?! How many more laws/rules/regulations...have been implemented in the last 30 years in an effort to protect us from ourselves? How many expansions in govt and gov't programs have been implemented? They are in an effort to strip reliance on self, family and community and foster a reliance on big gov't, enslaving us all to the whims of what DC is doing–see my reply to Don below. I'm sorry you feel self reliance is such an extreme view.

        December 23, 2011 at 4:04 pm |
      • C-Lo

        By the way, Jean. I am not familiar with a "Rethugliklan" party–is that a mid-west thing?

        December 23, 2011 at 4:05 pm |
      • C-Lo

        And last, you continue to confuse limited gov't with fascism. The two are cannot co-exist as you need big gov't to control and be controlled. Fascism and Communism are dead under a small gov't system (and socialism struggles). I know it's all part of your far left spin to try to discount small gov't ideals, and lesser minds fall for it. I just continue to wonder how much you are paid by the Soros propoganda machine.

        Merry Christ...oops almost did it again. Happy Hollidays.

        December 23, 2011 at 4:10 pm |
      • C-Lo

        Jean I read the blog from Donnelly, and it's as unfortunate as you. He's obviously been roped in by the same leftist propoganda distorting the original Tea Party message, and he loses even more credibilty about it when he writes it in context that make the Tea Party sound like a long time, historical franchise.

        I have also said many times that there are some similarities between Libertarians and the left, particularly when it comes to freedoms, like 1st amendment rights.

        Using the same logic as you and mr donnelly, I can tell you that OWS is anti-government an anti-democrat as several OWS protesters assailed the newly elected Democrat mayor of Denver during a vigil for homeless who had died. The OWS movement is nothing but a bunch of anarchist, hate filled vile creatins too lazy to get jobs and protest to get more gov't handouts–all in stark contrast to their anarchist views.

        December 23, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
      • jean2009

        @C-Lo I am going to quote a source that I think sums up a lot about the Teapotty/Rethugliklans.

        " So to Tom Tancredo who said to tea party Republicans "this is our country lets take it back" and to those who cheered him here is a flash. Its not your country. You just live here. And are accorded the same rights as every American citizen is given by the constitution. No more no less. You just live in America. Its not yours. It belongs to, as Lincoln and the constitution point out, "the people" and that means all of them.

        Tancredo and the neo-fascist leaning elements of the Tea Party should remember along with Palin and her partisan approach, because at one time King George thought this was his country too. And decided to take it back. And look what happened to him." @ Soda Head Oct. 3, 2011 – Tea Party Fascism in Revolutionary War Clothes.

        Remember that when giving anyone directions about where they should live...we all live here and we all have rights... we have the right to disagree with you, and to see things differently.

        As for State's Rights federal law prevails over state law, and in a situation where several states are involved with what could be damage caused to everyone's environment (plus not just the states the pipeline goes through) then add that the pipeline originates from an outside country Canada... frankly federal law should set the standards and should prevail.

        This whole debate over states rights was settled long ago with the10th Amendment and clarified with the 14th Amendment.

        I really don't understand your absolute desire to transport the dirtiest of fuel source across our great nation for a messily 6000 jobs so we can ship that dirty fuel to China allowing them to add more CO2 to the planet. Do you really hate this country, the planet, and the coral reefs that much?

        December 23, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
      • jean2009

        @C-LO I am not surprised..... a libertarian who disagrees with YOU has been roped in and brainwashed. How revealing of your narrow mindset.

        December 23, 2011 at 4:53 pm |
      • jean2009

        @C-Lo I doubt if I misconstrued anything about where you would like me or people that think like me to move.

        As for the abortion issue regardless of why abortion is used; the fact remains that it is better that it be legal rather than illegal. Illegal abortions were common before Roe vs Wade....that has not changed.
        According to statistic and research between 200,000 to 1.2 million happened in the United States per year between 1950 and 1960. In 1930, the recorded deaths of 2700 pregnant women were due to illegal abortions, that was 1/5 of the recorded deaths for pregnant women that year. For 2008 the number of legal abortions was 1.21 million just about what was happening in the 1950-60's. With the increase in population since the 1950's I would say overall numbers have declined.

        I'm enough of a realist to know if it were illegal the numbers would not change the only difference is rich women would go to countries where it is legal and safe, and poor women would find a back alley.

        FYI This knocks a big hole in your claims for limited government....shouldn't a limited government be out of the bedroom and a woman's body?

        December 24, 2011 at 10:17 am |
    • Don

      C-lo, if the GOP wanted a 1 yr extension so badly, why did they include the "poison Pill"? Why did they load it with GOP pork – especially the XL Pipeline (compliments of American Petroleum Institute lobbyists)? The GOP made the 1 yr extension unpassable and I expect them to continue their obstructionist games.

      TGIF

      December 23, 2011 at 11:17 am |
      • jean2009

        Thanks Don. They knew pure well that the Keystone XL was the deal breaker and thankfully the president didn't cave. Plus we all know they will keep to that tactic.

        December 23, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
      • C-Lo

        Interesting you should say that Don, as it was the Senate, not the House that inserted the language on the pipeline. And also to your point, I don't disagree with you about the insertion of "poison pills" and pork if you agree that Dem's do the exact same thing. The problem isn't as much a Dem/Republican issue as it is a DC issue. If they didn't continue to usurp power from the states and the people, MANY of the problems would be non-existent. We all sit around these days with bated breath waiting for the next crumbs to fall from the mouths of DC. It's been flipped from DC making decisions based on us to us making decisions based on DC. THAT is the major issue.

        December 23, 2011 at 3:53 pm |
    • Trace

      C-Lo,

      I refuse to give up on your good common sense. I realize that Jean2009 and you will forever disagree in the tenants of pragmatism vs. facism...and I am in complete agreement with Ms. Jean. But I ask for you to re-think these topics in the new year.

      We simply cannot hope to progress doing the same thing, over and over again, expecting a different result.

      Say what you will, the President and the Dems in congress, by all accounts are considered "Rich People". So, when the President and the Dems say "...raise taxes on the Rich", they are essentially saying "...raise taxes on Me".

      Now I will qualify my support of the Dems by saying I do not agree with everything the party says and has done over as many years, but I honestly believe they are the true Americans in saying our country is not all about "...breaking the bank to continue giving to the most affluent and saying to middle class and poor americans; Sorry, you're out of luck" Except for the Grace of God, there go I.

      Have a Wonderful Holiday Season, as the blessing of His humble birth is the only thing afforded to all that accept Him. If we are being honest, Jesus would be a 99%er...Right?

      December 24, 2011 at 11:42 am |
  14. Jamshidy

    It is not Speaker Boehner(Cry baby) fault. KU Klux Klan(KKK) which they changed their name to Tea Party is one to be blame. They forced him to go along with them.

    December 23, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • steveo

      Let me help you out! Are minorities Klan members? Are minorities Tea Party members? Since you equate the Klan to the Tea Party, both your answers must match! And no I am not a tea party member, just in case you want to know! Yet only the righties make racist statements, correct? Am I the only one to see the irony in this?

      December 23, 2011 at 10:35 am |
      • jean2009

        Steveo I don't think your message carries water. No relation between Teapotty and KKK give me a break!
        Try reading: Neo-Nazi Tea Party KKK -More Tea Party Racism posted Thursday, April 28, 2011 @ http://neo-nazi-teaparty–kkk.blogspot.com/2011/04/more-teaparty-racism.html . Or try the article posted on ABC news website by John R. Parkinson – August 26, 2010 titled: Tea Party Spells KKK, Rights Leader Says...embedded in that site are links to various videos that show racism being displayed at Teaparty protest marches. How can you deny moving video?

        December 23, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
      • Steveo

        Well Jean,
        I am STILL awaiting your proof that I made racist statements and that I made disrespectful statements against the first family and have been since the the 19th. You got anything yet? Secondly, I can also trace folks like Bull Conner and George Wallace back to the Democrats! does that mean all Dems are racist? Again, are minorities in the Tea party Klan members? A better question would be are ALL Tea Party members Klan members?

        December 23, 2011 at 10:54 pm |
      • jean2009

        @Steveo FYI Ron Stallworth a black police officer went undercover In the KKK.

        December 24, 2011 at 10:24 am |
      • Trace

        steveo,

        You and C-Lo had better consider a different approach with Jean2009. Just reading the back and forth, her arguments are ABSOLUTELY sound (she knows of what she speaks). And my two conservative (leaning right ) friend's comments seem dis-com-bob-ulated and disjointed. I'm just sayin'

        :>)

        December 24, 2011 at 11:48 am |
      • Steveo

        Nice one Jean2009,

        Good info about Stallworth. BUT, you did not address my statement about Conner and Wallace, nor did you answer me about whether ALL Tea Party members are Klansman NOR did you answer my request for proof that I am a racist and that I have made disrespectful comments about the first family! I have been waiting since the 19th! Somehow Trace thinks I am disjointed! Disjointed or avoided? I will credit you for the Stallworth story, I just looked it up!

        December 24, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
      • jean2009

        @steveo I doubt all Tea party people are KKK but the fact that they allow them to parade and show their racist hate speaks volumes about the overall fascist leanings of the tea party movement.

        As for your question about Connor and Wallace historical fact is both started as southern "states rights" democrats....but in today's world southern people who hold (and sympathize) with those beliefs are members of the southern Republican party...i.e. teaparty membership. I would suggest reading: The Great Republican Crackup: How Angry, White, Southern Men Took Over The GOP and Made Our Government Into A War Zone." @ http://www.alternet.org.

        Just as in today's world, neither Abraham Lincoln or Theodore Roosevelt would consider their belief's compatible with the Republican party of today, neither would Wallace or Connor consider their ideology compatible with Democrats of the world today.

        To prove that point, by the time Wallace ran for President he had already removed himself from the Democratic Party, and was running as an American Independent Party candidate. The Democratic party even then did not accept his views.

        My father who passed away 40 years ago; was a white southern democrat originally from Birmingham, Alabama....he was smart enough to say when Wallace was running that his views were wrong and racial hatred needed to be over in this country.

        December 27, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
      • Steveo

        Once again Jean not ALL tea party people are carrying signs and not ALL tea party people are racists! Yet you have not yet addressed your assessment of me being disrespectful to the first family. You keep avoiding that. You even called me racist and I am STILL waiting the proof! Why are you STILL avoiding that? You made a claim and I am still awaiting your proof!

        I will submit, this president has been met with a lot of crap! No doubt. I also submit your side goes over board by painting EVERYBODY who intelligently disagrees as racist!

        yes, there are racists in the tea party, yes there are racists in the Dems as well! When you accuse me of such evil as racism, I take serious exception! I don't need an apology, all I want is for you to get that straight! from this point on, I will consider this matter closed.

        December 27, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
  15. Jules

    Boehner is over as Speaker. Those individuals running on ideology alone will not fair so well in the next election, in my opinion. Successful egislating does involve compromise – just like a marriage involves compromise, families involve compromise, churches, governments, on and on. Ideology has never solved one problem – ever. Only fools think that you can accomplish anything because you have a specific ideology. Give me an honest person with an open mind and pragmatic problem solving skills any day of the week.

    December 23, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
    • C-Lo

      I'll give you plenty, just that non are considered "electable." Go figure!

      December 23, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
      • Trace

        that should tell ya something my Conservative Leaning Friend. "unelectable" means, not enough people see the value of your argument and/or approach. IOW's this country's electorate are people that have critical thinking skills. If it sounds silly, extreme and the benefits unrealistic; YOU LOSE.

        So use that intelligence I know you have and become the patriotic american that I know you are, and work with the rest of use that want what's best for this great country. Put down the GOP/TP ideology; and come on over to the side of progress and improvement. I guarantee your dog will stop biting you everytime you get home at night – LOL

        December 24, 2011 at 11:58 am |
      • C-Lo

        Trace–not enough time to address everything, but I'll hit a few high points and let it run from there.
        First, and most importantly, hope you and yours had as blessed and Merry Christmas as I, and wish you health and happiness in the new year.

        Second, my philosophical differences with you, Jean, etc. can be summed up pretty easily–you all see gov't as the primary source of problem solving. Steveo, myself and our ilk see gov't as a potential solution to some problems–but more as a referree than a game maker. They have consistantly been crossing that line (as Steveo likes to say, on both sides). The way I see it is that only gov't can revoke our freedoms (which they do with every law and tax they pass). There are some freedoms I am willing to cede (the "right" to drive 100 miles an hour on the interstates), but there are others which I believe are a deep intrusion to our supposed inalienable rights. The two main questions then become:
        1. How much freedom are we willing to cede to the gov't in the name of safety, fairness, health, wealth, etc and to what ends; and
        2. To which gov't are we willing to cede those freedoms, Federal, state, municipal, etc?

        As for Jean making "sound arguments," her discussion of the 10th/14th amendments didn't follow, the only thing they have connecting them is that the 14th disallows states from making laws regarding citizenship–I think she was talking about the "birther" movement, which I am not a part of, as O's mom was a US citizen which automatically gave him citizenship at birth, regardless of his father's status. To the 10th amendment argument, my issue is the liberal interpretation of the commerce clause that has essentially rendered the 10th amendment irrelevant.

        Further to her "sound arguments" review her stand on eliminating the dollar coins vs. dollar bills–she said elimination of the bills would cause places like the Dollar Store to raise their prices to $5 per item...logic that just doesn't follow.

        As for abortion, I have stated I am against it, but am not naive enough to think outlawing it is practical. That being said, why does the gov't protect the woman and not the child or father's rights? I know all the philosophical arguments from the left, so don't bother with the "it's just a growth until the second trimester" as this is a debate that is held in personal interpretation of when life starts.

        Yes, Jean, the gov't should stay out of the bedroom, and out of a lot of other places it sticks its nose in.

        Last, Jean dispays either ignorance or outright propogandist lies by continually trying to paint me and my beliefs as fascist. I have said, ad nausium, that fascism can only exist (as can communism) under a large, powerful gov't, which I continually advocate against. Just like you, Trace, there are philosophies and elements within the Republican party (or, more acutely, those who call themselves Republicans) with which I disagree.

        My hope is that the specific message of smaller gov't, whether it's championed by through the original Tea-Party message (not the hate filled one filtered by the left) or the Libertarians, will begin to grow again, and that a new era of self determination and self responsibility instead of gov't reliance, will emerge to make this the great country it once was.

        Jean is partially correct, saying Lincoln would be considered too liberal by today's R party. But this is only a half truth–he would be considered too liberal by some factions of the R's, just like Obama is considered too conservative by some of the far left Dems.

        Oh well, I've spent way more time than I have the time for right now. Take care

        December 27, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • Trace

      @Jules.....Key word "pragmatism"

      I do not find the "key word" in conversative views and for those reasons, I believe the GOP-Tea-Potty/baggers will become extinct and go the way of the Doe Doe Bird...and good riddens.

      It makes no sense to fail miserably for the country as a whole just because we are afraid of talking an alternative approach...And its Not Socialism...It is a pragmatic approach to solving a complex issue.

      With that, Good bye-GOP/TPers and hello progress for this country

      December 24, 2011 at 11:52 am |