POTUS talks to business community
January 5th, 2011
04:32 PM ET

POTUS talks to business community

WASHINGTON (CNN) - In yet another sign of President Obama's outreach to the business community as he deals with the new balance of power on Capitol Hill, officials at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce confirmed Wednesday that Obama will address the organization in a major speech on Feb. 7.

"He's going to come here and give a speech on jobs and the economy," Tom Collamore, senior vice president of communications at the Chamber of Commerce told CNN. "That a big priority for the President and it remains the top priority for the Chamber and the business community."

Announcement of the Obama speech – amid speculation that he may tap the business-friendly Bill Daley of JP Morgan Chase to serve as the new White House Chief of Staff – is a clear sign that the White House is ramping up its efforts to work with the business community after a sometimes-testy relationship.

"The President will discuss his commitment to growing the economy and making America more competitive and the importance of working together to create jobs,” White House spokesman Jen Psaki said of the speech.

The Obama speech will be shortly after he delivers his State of the Union address, which Democratic and Republican aides on Capitol Hill expect to be on January 25 in the House chamber.

The Chamber's powerful president Thomas Donohue, who has not been shy about butting heads with this White House on various substantive issues like health reform, is delivering his own pre-buttal of sorts to Obama's State of the Union. Donohue will deliver his annual "State of American Business" speech next Tuesday January 11 to set the table for the business community's agenda at the start of the new Congress.

The detente that will come with Obama's visit to Chamber headquarters next months comes after weeks of negotiations between White House aides and Chamber officials. CNN first reported Nov. 19 that after all of the tense relations Obama was mulling a dramatic peace offering to the Chamber by going into the lion's den for a Dec. 2 speech at a jobs summit the organization was hosting.

For logistical reasons, the Dec. 2 event did not come together. But White House aides and Chamber officials made clear to CNN at the time that both sides were trying to turn down the temperature on the relationship after Donohue spent tens of millions of dollars trying to bring the President's agenda to a screeching halt by helping to elect more pro-business lawmakers in the midterm election.

The bad blood extended to Obama personally slamming the Chamber in the final days of the campaign alleging they might be using illegal foreign money to influence the midterms, a charge the Chamber vehemently denied.

Beyond the political intrigue, the significance of Obama's olive branch to the business community is that it suggests he may be serious about following up on the tax deal he brokered with Republicans in the lame duck session of Congress in December to now find other economic measures that can win bipartisan support on Capitol Hill.

White House and Chamber official note that both sides are interested in pushing lawmakers to spend billions of dollars in new infrastructure spending, although that may be difficult to get done at a time of tight budgets.

Both sides are also interesting in following up on Obama's pledge to double U.S. exports within five years by winning final Congressional approval of the South Korean trade deal as well as other pending trade agreements.

Despite their high-profile battles over taxes and health reform, they also previously worked together on pushing through the 2009 stimulus package as well as the auto bailouts.

Psaki previously noted to CNN that "the economic recovery is more important than political battles of the past. There a number of issues that we can see eye to eye on."

Donohue, meanwhile, has pledged cooperation with Obama dating all the way back to Nov. 5, 2008, when he wrote the President-elect a letter pledging to work with him. The Chamber president is known for being a pragmatist and Chamber officials say the sentiment in the 2008 letter still applies after another election is over.

"As America turns the page, the Chamber shares with our fellow citizens the excitement of beginning a new chapter in our national life," Donohue wrote in the 2008 letter. "We are a can-do nation that can overcome all the difficult challenges that face us today. After a long and hard-fought campaign, America is ready to move forward and so is the business community. We are ready to go to work."

soundoff (99 Responses)
  1. Mad man

    Sorry, have to say it, what the heck does Barry Barrack Sotero Hussein Obama know about business? This guy has about as much business sense as he did legislative experience, ziltch. I am amazed at how America still knows nothing other than what the Democratic Liberal Progressive propaganda networks have supplied us with. Open up the records Barry, let America see who you really are...I already know.

    January 5, 2011 at 5:28 pm |

      He'll work it out afterall he is the great imposter. He'll do what Osama Bin Laden tells him to do.

      January 5, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
      • ThinkAgain

        You've got it wrong: It's the Bush family that's best buddies with the bin Laden family from Saudi Arabia. Or don't you remember how Bush arranged to have all the bin Laden's in the US quietly sent back home after 9/11?

        January 5, 2011 at 10:28 pm |
    • Ramon F Herrera

      "what the heck does Barry Barrack Sotero Hussein Obama know about business?"

      More than Bush, McCain and Palin combined. The main business/economics adviser to pres. Obama was the Chief of the Federal Reserve Board, who oversaw the biggest expansion in history, under RONALD REAGAN.

      ps: The words "Soetoro", etc. are clearly hateful and racist.

      January 5, 2011 at 10:21 pm |
    • ThinkAgain

      Yeah, right, and the Republicans who took our economy down the toilet and believe in the fantasy of "trickle-down" economics understand things? At least President Obama wants to help the Middle Class – and not just the rich who've been shipping American jobs overseas!

      January 5, 2011 at 10:26 pm |
    • ThinkAgain

      All my kids have only a "certificate of live birth" from our state to prove they were born here; if you want a "long form" (i.e., fancy) birth certificate, you have to buy one for $50. My kids are just as American as President Obama – and your inability to accept that speaks volumes about your deep-seated hatred and ignorance.

      January 5, 2011 at 10:30 pm |
      • Mad man

        Open the records then...

        January 6, 2011 at 10:23 am |
  2. Jay in NC

    The biz community should give Barry a speech about business. We were sold that this president is the smartest guy in the room. He has never taken a business class or ran a small business, managed people, been responsible for payroll, payroll taxes, staffing, ordering supplies, nothing. He is just an over grown community organizer. In other words a politician with a useless degree from Harvard. Hang on America, this is going to be a bumpy ride.

    January 5, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
  3. Marko

    It was nice while it lasted so...bye bye middle class and the poor, I 've gone and joined up with the big money. The C of C. The big boys. Too bad they have not joined up with you Mr Obama. You will get nothing from them. Oh, we will get our $100 a year tax break and still no jobs, as those all sail off to the far east. Woopee!! Thanks independents for voting these folks back into power. Try thinking once in awhile instead of allowing yourself to be manipulated by these greed monsters. Been going on for centuries, millenias.

    January 5, 2011 at 6:18 pm |

      We don't give away nothing to fools like you Marko and your protege Obama who now has the national debt up to 14 trillion dollars. DON'T SAY THE REPUBLICANS DID IT. TAKE IT FROM A 50 YEAR DEMOCRAT. WE HAD A DEMOCRAT CONGRESS FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS. THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED ANYTHING THEY WANTED TO HAVE STOPPED. INSTEAD IT WAS THEY WHO SET THE BUDGET\ OKAYED THE SPENDING AND MADE PLANS FOR FUTURE REVENUES. AS YOU SEE it DIDN'T WORK. Obama inherited 1.4 trillion in national debt now look at it. keep your head under the blanket you have pulled up and ignore the facts. this man is a fish out of water. Like Hillary said he really did not have any experience and still doesn't. DANG RIGHT I'M GLAD A CHANGE HAS BEEN MADE. MYSELF I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT ANYMORE. I HAVE JOINED THE TEA PARTY. SOUND LIKE THEY ARE FOR AMERICA AND THEY AT LEAST UNLIKE OBAMA THE TRAITOR SALUTE THE AMERICAN FLAG.

      January 5, 2011 at 9:46 pm |
      • ThinkAgain


        2010 – 2006 = 4

        You can't even do simple math ... WHAT A MORON!

        January 5, 2011 at 10:38 pm |
  4. Four and The Door

    "The President will discuss his commitment to growing the economy and making America more competitive and the importance of working together to create jobs,”
    This is exactly what the focus should be. As much as the liberals hate successful businessmen, this is what it takes to grow the economy, create jobs and fund all of those delightful government programs. American companies have to be competitive in a global economy. Materials, products and labor move globally and this is just what businesses need to be a part of to be successful. Sure, some American companies have employees abroad, just as Foreign companies have American employees and even do production in America to a significant extent. This is reality. We have to make it work for us.

    January 5, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
    • ThinkAgain

      We don't hate successful businessmen – we've got a couple of our own, you know (Gates, Buffet, etc.). We hate the lying SOS who scare and mislead people into voting against their self-interest and vote for tax cuts for the rich, who then use that cash to ship jobs overseas where labor is cheap and environmental regulations don't exist.

      January 5, 2011 at 10:32 pm |
  5. Liz Carter in Georgia

    FANNIE, FREDDIE, and the two known WARS prove just how much the past administration knew about business. EVICTION and DEATH! Bush/Cheney jumped on out there anyway, as long as their 'palms were being greased'! Bush certainly didn't know anything about anything! 'Open up the records Barry, let America see who you really are'....'I already know.' What records? Are you still asking for another birth certificate? Please tell us who you think he is! I thought the whole world knew who BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA was!

    January 5, 2011 at 7:17 pm |

      HEY DUMMY: Had any more planes fly into buildings. In fact had any terrorisrt acts here in America. Just what would you have doneif you were President and faced with this problem? Run you big flapping lips. The debt and bad economy can be laid at the door of the Democrats they were the controlling Congress during the last 6 years. I am so tired of ignorance who want to blame Bush. I was a 50 year Democrat and lasted just 6 months into Obama's reign of hades. This man will destroy America if allowed to continue on the course he is running rampant. National debt now is over 14 trillions dollars. But someone else had to have done it right. I don't doubt that since his race has never been known to work much. Sorry about the racial thing but that is what you people have turned it into being. This country is back 100 years because of this fiasco.

      January 5, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
      • ThinkAgain

        Bush ignored the August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing that explicitly said al Qaeda was determined to attack us using airplanes ... he also ignored the Clinton transition team, including Richard Clarke, who tried to warn the Bush Administration about Osama bin Laden.

        Bush didn't protect us – he let our country get attacked, because he was more interested in going on yet another vacation to Crawford than on taking the time to read a memo and acting on it.

        January 5, 2011 at 10:34 pm |
    • Mad man

      Gosh Liz – Fannie and Freddie Bush's fault too. Obviously you have not heard about the Congressional hearings that the Republicans repeatedly held and tried to address the dismal abyss of Fannie and Freddie. Sorry, they are all Maxine Waters, Franklin Raines and Wonder Boy Barney Franks mantra of fiscal failure.

      January 6, 2011 at 8:42 am |
      • Mad man

        I was unaware that President Barrack Obama aka Barry Sotero had provided a birth certificate, only a certificate of live birth that the State of Hawaii will issue regardless as to the location of a child's birth location if the parent is a US citizen. Let me ask you, if there is nothing to hide, then why hide it? This man is the President of the United States and every thing about his past has been sealed up tighter than dicks hat band, does that sound like transparency and truthfulness? If you want a passport, you are required to provide a birth certificate, not a certificate of live birth, a birth certificate. If it is good enough for a citizen of our Nation then it should be ten fold for someone wishing to represent this once great Nation.

        January 6, 2011 at 10:07 am |
  6. W L Jones

    One thing one have to admit our president is a quick learner.Two years studying under the best brain in american business is like a person having PHDS in math. and science.

    January 5, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
    • Thomas Covenant

      You mean George Bush?

      January 5, 2011 at 9:10 pm |

      Well it certainly hasn't rubbed of on him. Han ANY job increases?NO. But we've sure had another tremendous jump in the national debt by a whopping three trillion dollars. OH YES, HE'S THE MAN. WHAT A MORON.

      January 5, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
      • ThinkAgain

        Check out the job numbers today: Private businesses are hiring. From CNN today:

        ""Hire more workers" appears to be a popular New Year's resolution for employers this year.

        Economists are raising their forecasts for employment growth, as various job readings are suggesting that the long-awaited hiring boom may finally be here - or at least near."

        January 5, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
      • Mad man

        Think Again, it is amazing what changing the House from Liberal run Democrats to Republic CAN's will do for the economy. Why do you think business owners are hiring, do you believe that Obama's ideologies of giant government expansion, or government take over of the healthcare industry (1/6 of our economy), auto industry or insurance industires made small business owners run out and hire in anticipation of paying more for labor and earning less for themselves? It is the private side faith that the Republican run House will defuse this economic imbecile from doing any further economic damage as well as cutting spending, balancing the budget and putting Fannie and Freddie out of business! Hope from the Change!

        January 6, 2011 at 10:13 am |
    • Mad man

      I would not call Larry Sommers or Tim Geithner Americas best economic brains, if you actually looked back at their economic track records, they both employed some pretty shaky economic practices that led their investors to great loss exposure and were in line with creating the greatest collapse of an economy since the great depression. Two years of study, perhaps if he were focused and studied instead of campaigning, playing golf and vacationing, then perhaps...

      January 6, 2011 at 10:21 am |
  7. Jay in NC

    It was Barry's administration that claimed that spending 1 trillion dollars would keep unemployment below 8%. It is still stuck above 9.8%. They also claim 3 million jobs saved or created. That comes to $333,333 per job. This president has proven that he does not know how to create jobs or how to spend our money. Even his supporters say he is learning on the job. Thank goodness the Republicans are back in charge of the money.

    January 5, 2011 at 9:08 pm |

      The National debt is now well over 14 trillion dollars and climbing. THANK YOU OBAMA YOU IDIOT.

      January 5, 2011 at 9:23 pm |
    • ThinkAgain

      From CNN today:

      "Hire more workers" appears to be a popular New Year's resolution for employers this year.

      Economists are raising their forecasts for employment growth, as various job readings are suggesting that the long-awaited hiring boom may finally be here - or at least near.

      January 5, 2011 at 10:37 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      ThinkAgain, it would take 36 months at this rate just to equal the 11,000,000 jobs lost. And at a gain of 150,000 new workers each month we would still be behind by 5,500,000 jobs. I have read estimates that 300,000 for seven years just to equal the unemployment we enjoyed during President Bush.

      January 5, 2011 at 11:34 pm |
      • Mad man

        I concur Jay, Obama has expanded government beyond any realm of any President in US history, tp be paid for with tax dollars. I have always believed that the elitists (Obama included or so he thinks) wish for this one world order, one world global economy, one world currency....blah, blah, blah. They know free men will never agree to this in the United States so the plan is that they must crash the economy, destroy the currency and force America into this Global order, problem is, it will never work. The Clinton's, Bush's, George Soros and Obama all pushed us down the road toward this, it is like a bad Austin Powers movie but the elitists are DR. EVIL.

        January 6, 2011 at 8:56 am |
  8. Thomas Covenant

    This should be good. Coming from a president with no economic experience, no business experience, no executive governmental experience and little else of note. God help us all.

    January 5, 2011 at 9:10 pm |

    THE FACE OF AN EVIL LIAR: To all you who denied what Sarah Palin said about death panels. if you'd read sometime if you can read then you'd know what your Obama tried to do. But he has backed out now because he's afraid it will hurt politically.
    White House Strikes Death Panels
    Conservatives opposed to medical death panels have something to celebrate. The White House is making an about-face on the issue, striking references to end-of-life planning as part of annual physical exams in a Medicare regulation that took effect Jan. 1, administration officials tell The New York Times.
    If you don't have a clue what this means then do some research and apoligize to Palin. Bash her oar whatever she will be the next President of the United States.

    January 5, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • ThinkAgain

      I'll never apologize to that Quitter-Liar-Mooch Palin ... She lied about "death panels," and just because some Conservative rag puts those words in a headline doesn't mean that's what it was.

      Paying for a consultation with your doctor to do end-of-life planning is perfectly reasonable – and until you've dealt with someone dying and felt incredible relief that they'd done that and took the guesswork out of what their wishes were, YOU'RE the one who's freakin' clueless.

      (P.S. Palin never was and never will be interested in you beyond your drooling desire to vote for her or give her money. You're nothing but a piece of voter meat to her ...)

      January 5, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
    • ThinkAgain

      Here's more info from the New York Times; why didn't you include this, Mr. I Wannabe with Palin?

      "Many doctors and providers of hospice care had praised the regulation, which listed “advance care planning” as one of the services that could be offered in the “annual wellness visit” for Medicare beneficiaries."

      "The health care bill passed by the House in 2009 allowed Medicare to pay doctors for discussions of end-of-life care, including advance directives, in which patients can indicate whether they want to forgo or receive aggressive life-sustaining treatment."

      I don't see a problem with this – except for dimwits like you and your Alaskan Barbie and all the other Republican stooges ...

      January 5, 2011 at 10:25 pm |
  10. W L Jones

    The president do not hire people business does but with seven trillion dollars on the one trillion investment believe businessmen going to hire worker to get a piece of the action.

    January 5, 2011 at 9:57 pm |
  11. Ramon F Herrera

    Corporate America, the Obama Administration and the Democratic party are PARTNERS when it comes to immigration. The US Chamber of Commerce joined the Dept. of Justice suing the AZ SB-1070 law, which has been found UNCONSTITUTIONAL by every Federal Judge that has seen the case. The anti-immigrants are batting 0 for 7 in Federal Court. The MAIN supporter of the undocumented workforce (and a Path to Citizenship) is Corporate America.

    January 5, 2011 at 10:27 pm |
    • Mad man

      I read that it cost the American taxpayer approximately $20,000 per year for each illegal immigrant family here in the US. Take 20 million and divide that by 3.5 (norm) and you may then understand why American citizens that understand where their social security money is going want the borders secured and illegal immigrants deported. I would be all for an immigration path that simply required those that are here to pay a proportionate share based on years here in hard cash for the social services they have received while here, paying back the taxpayer. Immigration has to be in favor of the Nation not in favor of the immigrant.

      January 6, 2011 at 10:30 am |
  12. Ramon F Herrera

    You can bet your salary, that anyone who is anti-immigrant (illegal, whatever) is NOT an entrepreneur or business owner. To the anti-immigrants I ask: Don't your ever wonder that there ISN'T ONE private company in America that is willing to publicly support your side. The number of churches on your side is also ZERO.

    Care to prove me wrong?? (I have been asking this question for 6 years, and you folks have provided NOTHING).

    January 5, 2011 at 10:30 pm |
  13. J.V.Hodgson

    There are hundreds even thousands world wide of CEO's whose specific background or professional qualifications have nothing to do with the business they are running!
    I am at a loss to understand therefore why it is an apparent pre requisite of many bloggers that a President in America must be a business man ( own his own business,) and probably have an MBA from Harvard etc etc arrant rubbish.
    The old adage of "jack of all trades and master of none" has its opposite for Presidents of being a one eyed specialist and therefore nothing gets fixed overall.
    The definition of a good CEO/President is one who manages his people very well, and his resoruces well and knows when to listen and when to be A CEO/President decision taker or Presidential veto exerciser or recess appointer. In all of that timing is of the essence.
    Obama's timing to talk to the US chamber of commerce is excellent. While Republicans are pussy footing around and playing political games and waste time on Health care repeal and back track on pledges to America in days ( spending cuts) it took Obama 2 years to back down on one pledge, and got a good return on that anyway in the so called lame duck session.
    Beware Republicans the Democratic mice are scuttling around in your backyard ( business sector/jobs) while you guys fiddle with health care repeal and shutting down government spending bills and Rome burns so to speak.
    OK you won the house, not the senate, now you have to take responsibility thats what votes did they did not give Republicans carte blanche as you Boehner claims, or the opportunity to just criticise the opposition. They said be accountable and stop the just No games.

    January 6, 2011 at 12:30 am |
    • Ramon F Herrera

      "I am at a loss to understand therefore why it is an apparent pre requisite of many bloggers that a President in America must be a business man ( own his own business,)"

      The lawyer from Illinois went from the senate to the presidency, with no business experience. He became the most admired president in history. I am referring to Abraham Lincoln. The qualifications of president Obama are not unlike those of another young senator, of similar age and no business experience, who became the second most admired president: John Kennedy.

      What business experience did Ronald Reagan have?

      January 6, 2011 at 3:09 am |
      • Mad man

        Ronald Reagan was the Governor of California, an actor and among other entrepreneurial adventures, a rancher. Obama has ZERO business experience and very little legislative experience. I wish I could expand on his private business experience as a lawyer but like all of his records, they are sealed, go figure. If calling Barry by his legal name is deemed hateful racist and bigoted by you, then what does that say about the man that owns the name? Comparing the grandson of a Kenyan Mau Mau (Communism vs colonialism) to Abe Lincoln or a war hero like JFK is quite the reach.

        January 6, 2011 at 8:49 am |
  14. Ernie

    What's Obama going to do tell "Business'" that it's ok to start hiring after taking a beating for two years of no job growth. Obama must think that "Government" is going to create jobs it doesn't work that way. Banks have to be "Business Friendly" which there not. The housing mess is still a hot topic for banks. So now he going to lecture "The Chamber of Commerce" on job creation I think Obama has it backwards. He should've been worring on "Job Creation" in the first two years of his Presidency not Health Care this is going to be his "Waterloo" If Obama were a CEO, a baseball manager or what ever he would have been "Fired" for his lack of leadership and decision makeing. I believe the "Chamber of Commerce" will be listening but they will take his advice with a grain of salt.

    January 6, 2011 at 10:34 am |
  15. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Madman, you're right. The people that you named Maxine Waters, Barney Frank and those were actually the ones who were called 'to the mat' for their indescretions dealing with Fannie and Freddie. I, in my curious way, was still trying to address the question or accusation of OBAMAS' not being capable of handling business negotiations. I believe corruption in DC stretches across the isles, and there were also some greedy REPUBLICANS involved! They NEVER miss out on any big money opportunities! BAD BUSINESS!

    January 6, 2011 at 11:37 am |
  16. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Madman, I believe that OBAMA, should be involved with national business plans and ideas, even if he's just sits in, and listen, like all other PRESIDENTS have done. I'm sure he takes his 'business experts' with him, like BUSH and others did. This nation has elected many PRESIDENTS, who had no real business eperience; which I do believe OBAMA has! He has, at the least, taken business courses, somewhere, in all of his schooling. Why is it again, such a big tirade against him for trying to perform his duties!

    January 6, 2011 at 12:09 pm |
    • Mad man

      Liz the problem that private side businesses have with Obama are his fundamental concepts that government should regulate free enterprise to mandate entitlements for labor, at their expense. Let me ask you, if insurance companies are forced to provide coverage for a person that knowingly has cancer is that insurance or is that a government mandate that some company pay for the sick persons medical bills, what do you think that does to everyone else's premium costs? Please do not get me wrong, I believe that healthcare is far too expensive and I myself have been denied coverage. The fix is not what we have been presented with, that is just more government meddling and burdensome beauracracy, Americans are paying everytime an illegal immigrant gets sick or has an anchor baby, and every time someone that is without goes to an ER, that is basically taking tax monies and OUR social security monies to give to someone that has not earned it nor is even in our Nation legally. We are paying for educating their children at the cost to our own childrens educations, do you think they own homes and pay property taxes? Instead of Obama and Congress addressing true fixes for our problems they play politics to get re-elected, while middle class Americans that have worked for the American Dream watch it turning into a nightmare. His involvement so far has been to push his skewed liberal political agenda derived from some childhood deprivation of parental love that diametrically opposes anything that many Americans believe America is about. Because he is of mixed race the Democrats have used racism, class warfare, personal attacks, you name it on anyone speaking up to address his radical agenda. Sorry, I see him as a wolf in sheep's clothing trying his best to destroy what America is truly about.

      January 6, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
  17. Liz Carter in Georgia

    My honest, heart-felt feelings and question is this: Why is it that AMERICANS, who claim to be patriots and just LOVE this country, are so quick to find fought in EVERYTHING, whatever it's in reference to; whether it be issues relating to the GENUINE attempts to resolve systemic domestic problems; HEW, national homeland security, foreign negotiations/diplomatic relations, projected attempts to balance the debt, while overhauling financial institutions needed by potential employers to produce jobs, in OBAMA?

    January 6, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      I love my country but I am not in love with Barry. Need to remind you that President Bush was attacked, burned in effigy, pictured as a monkey, shoes thrown at him, mocked by comedians, called stupid, retarded, and a drunk. He was even attacked for serving in the National Guard. All of this while he was honestly attempting to resolve problems and serve his country. Liz, even you said "Bush certainly didn't know anything about anything!" The man attended Harvard Business School, sorry to hear that is not good enough for you. In years past, you did not notice or care because you did not see them as your presidents.

      January 6, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
  18. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Have we forgotten? Or are we in total BIG denial now, since it's been 2 years, that EVERYTHING that has had to be done, or is in the process of initiation and implementation, by the BARACK OBAMA administration is in DIRECT results of many past administrations; including the 8 years of the FAILED POLICIES and the bad decisions of the BUSH administration? Where was all of the weeping and wailing, of all of you POLITICAL ANALYSTS, when those past failed policies were being set, that BROUGHT us TO this point?

    January 6, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
    • Mad man

      Liz-I am not a GW fan or necessarily a Republican fan but I am diametrically opposed to the liberal progressive movement. If you look back several months the Whitehouse was admonishing the Chamber of Commerce over their opposition to healthcare reform (Obamacare). Bush's failings did not alone bring us here, some 50 odd years of bad governance, greed, lack of morality, entitlement spending, social degradation, etc., etc. have brought us here. Actually, GW Bush had a fairly decent economy up until the end and in the last year we took a bad turn. His track record is very similar to that of Slick Willie in jobs creation, unemployment rate etc. No Liz, it is not one parties fault or one man's fault, however Barrack Obama is our President and the buck now stops there, not George W Bush. Perhaps the anger you see is coming from some of the 20 million people sitting around without jobs watching our President vacationing on a regular basis and listening to our President making statements that $174,000 a year and lifer pension with healthcare benefits is insufficient for one of his cronies that produces, absolutely Nothing of value. Yeah, my name is right, I am mad!

      January 6, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      Liz, please name one 'failed policy' and one 'bad decision' of the Bush administration that you think brought us to this point. I want you to be specific so we can discuss it in detail. Thank you.

      January 6, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
  19. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay in NC; I was certainly through talking to you because I've become too 'stagnant and complacent', when it comes to anything you say. A. Goodman is right about you! Furthermore, your comments don't even come from the same place as Madmans! I can respect his opinions more than yours, because I believe he REALLY has a genuine disagreement with some of the decisions being made! YOU are just an OBAMA hater; trying to hide under his political agenda and decisions as your reasons! You're too biased, and petty!

    January 6, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      So you are not willing to name a specific 'failed policy?' I was thinking that we all could discuss the issues and maybe come to an agreement.

      January 6, 2011 at 9:00 pm |
  20. Liz Carter in Georgia

    However, you asked me to give you one BUSH 'failed policy' and 'one bad decision' that I thought brought us to this point. Well, I think it was bad policy to borrow money from CHINA and other countries to sustain two wars, that we never should have participated in, in the first place! BUSH was plead to; admonished not to go to IRAQ by the UNITED NATIONS; that it was a premature move and would be at a great expense; but what did he do? He made the 'bad decision' to override them, and put us in there anyway!

    January 6, 2011 at 9:09 pm |
  21. Liz Carter in Georgia

    @Madman; Honestly, you do put up an excellent case. However, I wonder how else will those issues be paid? There are times when we ARE our brothers keepers. We have to sustain the hospitals and doctors someway; even to keep them available for poor legal AMERICANS. That may include the poor uninsured so-called illegals until the immigration policy is fixed and fully and totally implemented. The government is the people and yes, we pay taxes to it; but it's gone broke now. We have to pay it forward or behind!

    January 6, 2011 at 9:31 pm |
  22. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Madman, I have to say I can personally relate and feel your pain or concern on some of the decisions that are being made; but I also know that we as an AMERICAN PEOPLE, have to start somewhere. POOR PATRIOTS! I've been 'burned badly' myself financially! As a retired federal employee, and living on a pension, I was denied a cost of living raise this year; my health insurance premium was increased $60! My husband's a disabled VIETNAM VET; Vets got no raises either! We try to understand the projected mission!

    January 6, 2011 at 10:35 pm |
    • Mad man

      Liz-Semper Fi to your spouse and let me just ask you to explain another of the issues I have with what has transpired. Here we just had the first responders bill of I believe 4.2 billion dollars passed to pay medical expenses for first responders. I can't tell you what a load of flag wrapping junk I believe that to be, not that those people are not heroes but that most belong to either firemen or policeman unions that have the best tax funded pensions and healthcare already that money can buy. When are they going to take care of the vets, where is the extended medical benefits for the fellow patriots that are dying from agent orange exposure or from Desert Storm exposure to low level spent uranium shells used in armored warfare? I see that which has transpired under Obama as nothing more than politics and Union payoffs and political bribes for the upcoming election in 2012. We are our brothers keeper but that does not mean that we are to destroy our Nation and our childrens futures to do so, remember that everytime a lawyer sues someone for some idiotic accident, the price to everyone else goes up, remember everytime you see a pro athlete in a coke ad, the price of coke just went up, remember everytime an ER has to treat someone without healthcare the cost to everyone else just went up. Instead of our government stipulating that ER's have limited care provisions and limited legal liability, they try to make everyone pay for insurance. If most of those did not have the money to insure, do you think they have the money to purchase? Your price just went up...God Bless you Liz, you have a good heart!

      January 7, 2011 at 8:50 am |
  23. Jay in NC

    Liz, Thank you for your statements. I took the time to look up dates and amounts, if you find an error please let me know, I am trying to give you an honest answer and not spin the facts. If I understand you correctly these are your three issues with President Bush.
    1) Bush should not have participated in Iraq war.
    2) Bush should not have participated in Afghanistan war.
    2) Bush should not have borrowed money from China to pay for the wars.
    3) Bush should not have overridden United Nations.

    Let me try and address these from my point of view.

    1) Bush should not have participated in Iraq war.
    I think that most people would now agree with you. However in 2002 it was not so clear. Congress voted and gave President Bush the authority to invade Iraq. Here is a little history that I have found. President Bush, like all presidents, relied on military officials to advise him. On February 6, 2003, Powell appeared before the UN to "prove" the urgency to engage a war with Iraq. His speech was based on the best British and US intelligence of the time. Powell was a well respected by both Democrats and Republicans, 4 star general and served in Vietnam War. Powell's speech is considered by many to be the pivotal decision on going to war with Iraq. A joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002, authorized the Iraq War. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she is not sorry she voted for a resolution authorizing President Bush to take military action in Iraq. In 2004, President Obama said when asked how he would have voted on authorizing the war had he been in the Senate at the time; and, "there's not much of a difference between my position on Iraq and George Bush's position at this stage." The end of the Iraq war was negotiated by President Bush before he left office. To President Bush’s credit he has always taken responsibility for his actions. He has never blamed it on anyone else. He has said that it was his decision and his responsibility.

    To conclude, Obama, Clinton and most of Congress agreed with President Bush. He was advised by the same people that advise Obama today. Was it a good decision? Probably not, however all top officials were thinking the same back in 2002-2003.

    2) Bush should not have participated in Afghanistan war.
    Let me explain this one from Obama’s point of view. Obama has described Afghanistan War as "fundamental to the defense of our people…This is not a war of choice. This is a war of necessity," This must be true because in his two years of Office he has increased the number of troops by more than 75,000 for a total near 100,000. Also during these two years we have lost more solders than during the 7 years of Bush’s leadership. This fact is often not believed by many Democrats and Liberals but if you check any of the .gov or .org sites that keep numbers you will see that what I am saying is true.

    It is puzzling to me that Obama’s supporters will attack President Bush, yet Obama has chosen the very same people to advise him. Powell advises Obama on military matters, Gates defense secretary, General Petraeus, all the same people that advised Bush.

    Conclusion: I do not like the idea that we are in Afghanistan I wish Obama did not agree with Bush on this issue. It does look strange that Bush is blamed for this war when Obama has always supported it. We are left to believe that Obama would have invaded Afghanistan if Bush had not. Especially with him adding so many troops.

    3) ) Bush should not have borrowed money from China to pay for the wars.
    This is a serious problem; we are in debt no doubt about it. When Bush took office we were in debt at around 5 trillion dollars, again many Democrats and Liberals do not believe this fact; they think that there was a Clinton surplus, take the time to Google national debt. There are many government charts that show that we were, in fact, in debt 5 trillion dollars.

    During Bush’s presidency the US did borrow more money. It is not as simple as a president writing a check. Congress has to approve the spending and the debt ceiling. The debt was approved and the money was borrowed from the market. Did you know that 60% of the debt is held by US citizens? This is mainly in the form of US Savings bonds. China was the second largest holder of debt, however we did not borrow directly from China, and the bonds are traded on the open market. China is cash rich at this time and purchased many of the bonds. A few months ago, Japan became the largest holder after the American people.

    As of February 2010, around $704 billion has been spent on the Iraq war based on estimates from the Congressional Research Service (CRS). That is less than Obama spent on the first stimulus package. Obama continues to spend money on the Afghanistan war. This month he will push for the debt ceiling to be raised again.

    4) Bush should not have overridden the United Nations.
    There is the belief, and history, that the United States does not answer to any other government and certainly not to the United Nations. In reality we need to get along with the rest of the world. On November 8, 2002, the Security Council passed Resolution 1441 by a unanimous 15-0 vote. It is still debated if Resolution 1441 gave us authority to invade. What is clear is that it did not give UN military the authority. However, the point is mute. Congress voted to authorize force and President Bush had the authority to engage in war.

    January 6, 2011 at 10:39 pm |
  24. Liz Carter in Georgia

    @A. Goodwin, Please forgive me for miss-calling or miss-spelling your name as I was blogging to another blogger on another issue; By the way I enjoy reading your truthfilled, beautifully worded comments. @Jay in NC; correction: Not A. Goodman, but A. Goodwin was right about you.

    January 7, 2011 at 1:10 am |
  25. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay in NC; Thankyou for that dissertation; and you may not be trying to 'spin the facts' but, the first thing you did was gave me your point of view as far as the IRAQ WAR. You said most think it was a mistake now, but at first it was unclear. There were many AMERICANS and countryman of the 'military alliance' who thought it was wrong; demonstrated and spoke out against it, but BUSH/CHENEY didn't care! They had irons in that fire! There's big money in war and they weren't about to pass that MONEYTREE up!

    January 7, 2011 at 1:45 am |
  26. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay; I think IRAQ was all about 'PERSONAL GAIN' for the GOP, as well as the PRESIDENT; and especially the VICE! There may be some DEMS that proffitted too, but you say that they were authorized by congress, so that excuses BUSH of the 'bad decision'?!? I think not. Look at the many lives we've lost in the IRAQ WAR all those years! Not to speak of the money wasted. I read somewhere, that it costed us almost a billion dollars per week to run that war! Now you tell me who's thrown money into a black hole!

    January 7, 2011 at 2:06 am |
  27. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay; Since Gen Colin Powell is very intelligent and is a well respected man on both sides, I believe that is why they USED him to prompt the big urgency; they sat him down and told him what to say! He was a federal high ranking official, but there's still sone higher than he. He wasn't going to be 'insubordinate' and lose his job! So, he stuck it out and stayed until the opportunity came when he was able to step down. That was soon after he he was coerced to stand up there and put a voice those WMD lies!

    January 7, 2011 at 2:19 am |
    • Jay in NC

      It is a shame that you think so little of Col. Powell. That you do not think that his command was real. I have more respect for the man, I think he made a mistake and I am willing to see that and understand. Do you think the way you do perhaps because of his race? I hope not. If you truly believe what you say, why would Barry trust him?

      January 7, 2011 at 8:27 am |
  28. Liz Carter in Georgia

    @Jay, for some greedy money-hungry villains and vixens, RESPECT goes right out the window, when it comes to THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR! Truth, love, friendship, family, loyalty, compassion, empathy, sympathy, charity, peace, and even patriotism, just to mention a few, goes out of the window; when it comes down to money! So they fearmonged to get IRAQ started. As I said before there were many AMERICANS against it, but where was all the media outcry, weeping and wailing, and TEA PARTYERS then? We were bamboozled!

    January 7, 2011 at 2:40 am |
  29. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, now there were already soldiers and marines posted up in AFGHANISTAN, and BUSH sent some more, but they really weren't doing much back then. All eyes were on IRAQ, where the money was; The stupid thing about the IRAQ trick too is BIN LADEN wasn't over there. Bush claimed also that we were retaliating because of 911! The military in AFHGANISTAN began to lay on back, luxuriate and smoke opium. They were hoping we'd really forget about them; they were getting high; as the young people say 'just chillin'!

    January 7, 2011 at 3:02 am |
    • Jay in NC

      No one ever claimed that Bin Laden was in Iraq. It was weapons of mass-destructions. And remember 2004 Obama agreed with going to war in Iraq.

      January 7, 2011 at 8:20 am |
    • Jay in NC

      Liz, you said "but they really weren't doing much back then." That is an outrageous statement. We lost over 500 men and women, many of them only 19 years old, during that time. Your claim is an insult to those that have chosen to serve. Apologize to the families for your statement.

      January 7, 2011 at 9:03 am |
  30. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, OBAMA comes into office and negotiates ending the IRAQ war, not BUSH, changing the focus to the place of war that we may still have a slight reason to be in. He ships some of those soldiers over to AFGHANISTAN to finish whatever business we may still have there, like finding BIN LADEN, killing him, or bringing him to justice! Since we're over there anyway, AFGHANISTAN being the focus would've been more logical and reasonable! That's where we should've been doing battle if at all, in the first place!

    January 7, 2011 at 3:28 am |
    • Jay in NC

      You said that Bush should not have started the war in Afghanistan, now you say "That's where we should've been doing battle if at all, in the first place!". Please explain.

      January 7, 2011 at 8:18 am |
  31. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, I don't know why everybody now wants to claim that BUSH negotiated the end of the IRAQ WAR. All of a sudden, you people want to take even that success from OBAMA and give it to BUSH! I see now, anything that happens under OBAMAS' watch that's percieved as a negative, it's OBAMAS'; if it turns out a positive outcome BUSH did it! Left up to BUSH and CHENEY, that war could've gone on another 10 years! OBAMA campaigned with the message of his drawdown date; HE DID IT! McCAIN/GOP was screaming 'maybe 2013'!

    January 7, 2011 at 3:44 am |
    • Jay in NC

      The U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: "Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq") is a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States. It establishes that U.S. combat forces will withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

      On December 4, 2008 Iraq's presidential council approved the security pact. Bush said about the signing of the agreement between the two countries. "The Security Agreement addresses our presence, activities, and withdrawal from Iraq."

      The withdrawal was negotiated, signed and implemented before Obama took office. Please answer me on this specific issue. It would be nice to nail down some of the arguments so we can all move forward.

      January 7, 2011 at 8:15 am |
  32. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, Oh, I have GREAT RESPECT for GEN COLIN POWELL. I have just as much respect as I do BARACK OBAMA. I gave you my point of view. He still worked for 'THE GOVERNMENT', there is an 'oath' that we all are required to take, at the time of our hiring. I don't remember the whole thing verbatetum, but it's points to the promise of protection and loyalty of inside workings deemed necessary to carry out or proceed in governmental decisions and functions, while PROTECTING the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES!

    January 7, 2011 at 9:09 am |
    • Jay in NC

      You are saying that Powell sent his men and women into battle to die, knowing that it was all a lie? I am still waiting on your answer about Bush negotiating the withdrawal of troops before Obama took office. I gave you the name and dates of the SOFA agreement.

      January 7, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • Mad man

      Liz – If a Federal Judge has found the healthcare bill as presented by Virginia to be unconstitutional, and if supported by a Supreme Court ruling, what will that say about a President and a Congress that proposed such an unconstitutional bill? What about that oath and what about the repercussions of a ruling delivering them the bad news? Progressive liberals means they wish to progress the meaning of the Constitution into what THEY wish it to be. Under our Constitution each State is delegated the right to govern, the Fed has steadily encroached into State's rights for years. That is what By the People for the People translates to, these Washington elitists are simply a bunch of clueless idiots that have found power, greed and wealth beyond anyone's dream, all at our expense and demise. Rule One: Take care of yourself while maintaining one's integrity.

      January 7, 2011 at 10:44 am |
  33. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, on Jan 6 at 9:09 pm, I went ahead and answered your request of my point of view on one 'failed policy' and one 'bad decision', made by BUSH. In essence, what I tried to say was that we BORROWED MONEY to sustain TWO wars that we shouldn't have been participating in, in the first place! They came with great burden to our nations economy, as well as to our AMERICAN families of the fallen and lamed soldiers and marines! We had to pay them for their active service; NOW, support them for their disabilities!

    January 7, 2011 at 11:53 am |
  34. Jay in NC

    Again I am confused by your stance. You say "...wars that we shouldn't have been participating in..." Yet you say about Afganistan "That's where we should've been doing battle if at all, in the first place!". Obama has committed 3 times the troops and also lost more troops. He has called Afganistan a 'just war.' Is this a 'bad decision' made by Obama?

    January 7, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
  35. Jay in NC

    Liz, You said that it was 'spin' to say that Bush negotiated the withdraw of troop. I showed you the SOFA agreement with Iraq. Singed and agreed on before Obama took office. The agreement is the reason combat forces were withdrawn in June 2009. It is also the reason our troops will be out by Dec 2011. Will you at least admit that you were wrong or do you just want to continue to 'spin' the issues.

    January 7, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
  36. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, If I'm asked, I think AMERICA should be held responsible and liable to the families of all our fallen soldiers and marines, who died in IRAQ for life! AMERICA should also compensate for life, every disabled veteran from that war, because I still maintain that it was entered into 'illegally', period. In reference to AFGHANISTAN, I walked that back by saying, since we were ALREADY posted up there, it seemed to be the most LOGICAL place to start a war, since that's where they claimed BIN LADEN was! 911?

    January 7, 2011 at 12:17 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      You say "it was entered into 'illegally', period." Congress voted to authorize force. Even the United Nations voted 15-0 to authorize force. Powell agreed with it. Please show me the reason it was illegal. I have given you facts and dates and documents. Please tell us how this was illegal.

      January 7, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      Liz, you are the only one that is saying that this was illegal. Here are the facts again.
      A joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002, authorized the Iraq War. On November 8, 2002, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1441 by a unanimous 15-0 vote. Gen. Powell, Hillary, and Kerry all agreed. Obama said in 2004 that he agreed. Why would Obama agree to something that is illegal? Please give proof of your claim.

      January 7, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
  37. Jay in NC

    Liz, Please answer the issue about ending the Iraq war. If you take the time to read about the SOFA agreement I think you will see that you were wrong. That Bush had in fact negotiated the with drawl of forces from Iraq, well before Obama ever took office. I know this may be hard for you to accept but it is the truth. It would be a shame for you to continue to tell people otherwise. I am not asking you to stop hating President Bush, just to realize the facts. Maybe then you can understand why I disagree with the idea that Obama end the Iraq War. So please I ask you to read what I have posted about SOFA and tell me were I am wrong. Not just say it is not so but facts. Thanks.

    January 7, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
  38. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, we cry about being in such a horrendous debt situation! Those wars have 'played around' in our nations pocketbook for a long time, to the point that we went out borrowing to keep them going! They caused the biggest portion of our debt! We should've done what was initially claimed we were going to do! Focus on the fact that we had to go get BIN LADEN! That would have meant AFGANISTAN or PAKISTAN; then our soldiers lives and our financial resources would have, at least, been spent on a 'JUST' cause!

    January 7, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      I agree that our country is in debt and that we should not have gone to war. That we agree on. However that does not change the fact that Obama agreed with Bush on both wars. So you and I agree, and Bush and Obama agreed. It is a shame that they could not see it our way. As far as the amount of money I looked it up and found that Iraq has cost 765 billion, Afghanistan has cost 366 billion. Or a total of $1.2 trillion. Agreed, that is a lot of money. Our country is in debt to about $14.5 trillion so that is about 1/14 of our total debt. On the other hand Obama has spent more than both wars on stimulus. So sorry we disagree it is not the biggest portion of our debt.

      January 7, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
      • Mad man

        Liz and Jay, until we decide to fight a war to win a war, there will be no honor or justification for our young men and women dying in either "war", or police action. Vietnam = 10,000 dead US soldiers a year and produced the political ideologues of 60's anti-war anarchists that we now have running our Nation. I still maintain that it has been an orchestrated attempt by these liberal progressives to take down the economy to crush the dollar to lead us to their nirvana vision of a one world order where of course they shall rein elite!

        January 7, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
  39. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, what I will tell you about the statement I made that 'they weren't doing much back then' was to say the sight or focus seemed to get lost on what the real 'alleged' mission was, and that was to what? Get BIN LADEN! But no, we went 'SHOCKING AND AWEING' in IRAQ, instead! It seems they were all but forgotten! Even the medias' main focus was on the IRAQ WAR! Now, to the families who lost members during the time I was speaking of, you have my utmost deepest sympathy; charge it to my head and not my heart!

    January 7, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      Liz, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1441. It was all about WMD and Iraq. The vote in Congress was about Iraq. No one ever said that they were going to Iraq to find Bin Laden, It was a separate problem that had been brewing. The focus was not shifted. Afghanistan war had already started. The UN voted 15-0 to remove Hussein from power. You are still avoiding answering my other question. About Bush having negotiated the end of the Iraq war before Obama took office. Please give us an answer.

      January 7, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      The War in Afghanistan began on October 7, 2001.
      The Iraq War, Second Gulf War or Operation Iraqi Freedom was a military campaign that began on March 20, 2003.

      January 7, 2011 at 1:57 pm |
  40. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay, I'm not saying POWELL sent them in to die knowing it was a lie; You even reminded me of what he based his assumption of urgency on: the best BRITISH and US intelligence, at the time! That's all he knew at the time; but I believe there were those, the greedy corrupted ones who knew better! Haven't you been reading the blogs? Most bloggers are already aware of the corruptional greed in government; I mean other than mine, because you love to pick fights with me! You are 'THE' DEVILS' ADVOCATE! LOL!

    January 7, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      You said that he said it to keep his job. You must think that Powell was just a token guy. Someone that could not think for him self. As a 4 star gen. he would have access to all the intel of the day. He was the advisor to Bush. Still you do not answer me on the SOFA agreement.

      January 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
  41. Jay in NC

    Liz, I am reposting some of this because you just keep ignoring it. You had claimed that I was 'spinning' the truth. That Bush did not negotiated the end of the Iraq war. Here is my proof.

    The U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: "Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq") is a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States. It establishes that U.S. combat forces will withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

    On December 4, 2008 Iraq's presidential council approved the security pact. Bush said about the signing of the agreement between the two countries. "The Security Agreement addresses our presence, activities, and withdrawal from Iraq."

    The withdrawal was negotiated, signed and implemented before Obama took office. Please answer me on this specific issue. I have taken the time to give you clear facts and as they say 'no spin.' Please offer me the same.

    January 7, 2011 at 2:12 pm |
  42. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay; in reference to your request for my answer on the SOFA agreement, I think I remember, hearing some talk and analyzing by the media about that agreement. It was just a 'conditional agreement' between the two parties based mainly on the status of activities, training progress, civil readiness, and conditions on the ground, etc Well, it didn't happen by JUNE 30, 2009! Evidently OBAMA had to be re-negotiated it, and the drawdown just occured last summer. We have yet to see if DEC 31, 2011 is a good date!

    January 7, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      Liz, There is no hope for you.

      January 7, 2011 at 3:29 pm |
  43. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jay in NC; I did NOT say you were 'spining' the truth! Cordially, I only said that you may not want to spin the facts, but the first thing you did was to start giving me your POINTS of VIEW, on those 'facts'! I even thanked you! Yes, I'm sure it took you time to research all of those 'facts', but you did that to start a blog fight with my POINTS of VIEW! Mine come from the place of many layman AMERICANS; common sense and wisdom! We don't always have the 'facts'; nor have we researched them! THUS, OPINIONS!

    January 7, 2011 at 4:02 pm |
  44. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Madman; I'm just getting back to you, but you see why; My spouse, a VITNAM VETERAN says this often! You're absolutely right about war, and the loss of even one life if we're not trying to win it! We also agree with your assessment relating to the potentiality of 'THE NEW WORLD ORDER'! However, I do believe that the in-the-near-future change in power and money, will be shared by liberals, conservatives, progressives, independents, libertarians, and encompassing all races and genders! I truly believe that!

    January 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
  45. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Well, Jay! There may be a little hope for you!

    January 9, 2011 at 12:09 am |
  46. Mad man

    Liz – I fear Jay is right about you in regard to your blind following of this Charlatan Obama. Don't you get it that the liberal progressives prepped a minority for the Presidency for Americas support only to destroy everything America is, utilizing their blind racial biases? Would an Oprah be able to be made in any other Nation than America? Would any other Nation bend backward to lift up minorities out of poverty to bring them in to share in social wealth? It is not America's fault that many squander their opportunities in achieving the American Dream but what I am seeing thus far is a full frontal assault on the American Dream itself, change in money and power should follow individual success, not mandated government regulations.

    January 9, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
  47. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Madman; I'm do hate you're beginning to feel that Jay is right about me, but okay! I simply don't believe that PRESIDENT OBAMA is a charlatan. I believe there may be a 'higher organization' than himself, who have decided that the decisions he, his administration and congress are having to make, will work out for the 'greater good', in the long run. I also believe that the full frontal assault of the AMERICAN DREAM actually began Sept 11, 2001. To me, that day signified the beginning of The New World Order!

    January 9, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
  48. Liz Carter in Georgia

    I'd like to say that I draw my opinions on the current political issues, the president and the perpetual fights by watching FOX, CNN, MSNBC, Chris Wallace, Meet The Press, Fareed Zakaria, and Washington Watch; I do pull away from the 'spin masters' sometimes, to watch the truth on CSPAN and the history channel! I'd like to invite you to watch the History Channel sometimes; you can at least find food for thought there; with no 'spin' to it. Watch '9/11: State of Emergency', and '9/11: Conspiracy or Theory'.

    January 9, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
  49. Liz Carter in Georgia

    If you are interested, I believe another wonderful documentary you should watch on the history channel is The American Patriot', hosted by Halle Berry. I believe it would help in our social and civil understanding of the truth of each others importance to the survival of this nations' beliefs, constitutional creeds of democracy, and it's citizens.

    January 9, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
  50. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Madman; because of her own personal ambition and self-challenging to educate herself in her desired career, JOURNALISM; then after her hard work, starting at ground floor level of her journalistic career, she got offered a slot for her own show. That was her ultimate desire. I believe with her remarkable ambition and hard work, OPRAH would have been able to work the same success in many other progressive countries! She just so happened to live here in AMERICA! The network proffited big time too, you know.

    January 9, 2011 at 9:16 pm |
  51. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Your remark about America's bending over backwards to lift us, the so-called minority out of poverty and into social wealth, how is that? I thank GOD that AMERICA's been able to provide section 8 housing, food stamps, social security disability and financial welfare assistance to the it's poverty strickened and disabled citizens of all races! Yes, from what we've seen thru the media and propaganda, there aren't many nations who do afford that; but bending over backwards?! To much is given, much is required!

    January 9, 2011 at 10:00 pm |