White House salaries
July 1st, 2011
04:35 PM ET

White House salaries

Ever wondered how much the White House staff makes? We know that President Obama makes $400,000 a year but what about his chief of staff, press secretary and other assistants? In an annual report released by the White House to Congress, we get a peek into how much each member of the White House staff earns. Check out the raw numbers here.


Topics: The Buzz • White House

soundoff (119 Responses)
  1. Done

    Its not all that bad. I make more than 70% of the staff but over half of my money goes towards healthcare.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • Frank

      BS...you are NOT spending over $30k a year on health care...get real and stop exaggerating!

      July 1, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
    • Wzrd1

      Wow! I made more than the majority too, only some directors made more than me.
      Honestly, I'd not even answer the phone for most of those wages!

      July 1, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
  2. War Eagle 22

    Our great nation is so lucky to have this talented team working for us. We should triple their salaries.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • Kevin H

      For those that complain about how much these guys make – remember – these salaries absolutely do not allow them to live in any sort of luxury in DC. The housing situation in the area is such that they can't live close to their workplace. Many of them can make triple what they make there in the private sector and many of them left jobs where they did make triple what they're making now. This is a sacrifice. These jobs are high pressure and require in some cases 24 hour service. It's little wonder that many aids don't last one presidential term. These are in many cases very, very stressful jobs. And take a look – some of the youngest people make $50K a year – that's not a lot in DC.

      July 1, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
      • War Eagle 22

        I'm glad we are in agreement.

        July 1, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
      • Wzrd1

        Quite true! For what most of them are getting paid, I'd not even respond to the job offer!
        ESPECIALLY in DC, the housing is insane in price there. Except in the bad neighborhoods...

        July 1, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
      • slim32

        So you have no problem with 1/3 of the White House staff making $100,000 or more per year off of the tax payers but some small business owner that makes $250,000 is evil. How does that work? In fact 21 of those clowns make $172,200 per year. At what point between $172,200 and $250,000 does one become evil and begin making more than you need?

        July 1, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
      • Bill in Stl

        Dear Kevin, Once awhile back I was offered a job in the NorthEast. At a salary that was 20% greater than Iwas making in the midwest... The problem was that a 40k home from he midwest would be worht near 500k there.... I analuyzed the pay, and benefits and decided the move was not financialy sound... I turned them down... So what are you saying here ... that these people don't have that choice, to turn it downI mean, that for some mystical reason they must be there and that we should really pay for it?

        July 2, 2011 at 2:08 pm |
    • Bill in Stl

      hey there mister eagle ... do you make as much as the prez? and do you have a posse that is paid for like Him???? Just curiouw ...

      July 2, 2011 at 2:04 pm |
  3. David Carter

    As expected these are government employee who are paid well but I don't think anyone would say they are paid too much.
    Looks like the cap is $172,000 and those are people like the Press Secretary and Chief of Staff. Nobody is getting rich.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • che-3

      That's NOT what the racist Redthugs claims including that John Wayne Gacy EVIL white presidential material clown, aka, plastic face Michelle Bachmann.

      July 1, 2011 at 6:48 pm |
      • Bill in Stl

        Hey Che ... What about Herman Cain?

        July 2, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
      • maikl

        You f... racist chute your dirty mouth. Any white say like that would loose job, but you can say like that because people give you golden card and you use it when you needed just for your advantage.Obama use it also.

        July 2, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
      • maikl

        TO che-3. You f... racist chute your dirty mouth. Any white say like that would loose job, but you can say like that because people give you golden card and you use it when you needed just for your advantage.Obama use it also.

        July 2, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
  4. ketrout

    454 employees????? I can see where we the taxpayers can save a lot of money! This Whitehouse is really not worth the investment that the American taxpayers are paying for.

    OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS TRULY WAY TOO BIG AND SHOULD BE DOWN SIZED AND STREAMLINED.

    Obama is wasting one hell of a lot of money that could be used to pay down our debt.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:37 pm |
    • Sonia Gray

      Responding to KETROUT: So, you think President Obama is wasting a lot of money? I'm assuming you didn't vote for him, therefore I have to ask you the following question? How much $$$$ did George Bush waste with his war on WMD that didn't exist, etc. along with the normal expenses of running the White House?

      July 1, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
      • bubba

        You are such an idiot !!!!!!... You have no have no clue as to what your talking about other than believing what you are told !!
        Something like being trained as a dog !!

        July 1, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
      • yeah....right!!!

        I love this arguement.....

        Its okay for Obama to waste money because Bush did. Absolutely brilliant. How can anyone argue with that logic?

        July 1, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
      • jean2009

        BINGO! Thanks.

        July 2, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
      • Jay in NC

        Are you saying that because President Bush wasted money it is OK if Barry does the same? Good grief will you people ever hold him accountable for anything?

        July 2, 2011 at 8:28 pm |
    • Lejaune

      Well, the president creates jobs, as he promised, at least for the 454 people.

      July 1, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
      • Notfooled

        I'm pretty sure other Presidents have had that much, and President Obama did not create these jobs but just filled them.

        July 2, 2011 at 9:54 pm |
    • derp de derp

      So... Let me get this straight.

      1 cup of government employee cuts
      2 teaspoons of magic
      a dash of stupid

      and voila! everything's fixed.

      It's surprising that we aren't time traveling yet. With intelligence like that, we could be exploring other galaxies... sheesh.

      July 1, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • Judy

      Couldn't agree more. (Of course, then we'd have to hire 'consultants' to study how to make those changes!!)

      July 1, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
    • Jeffrey Bennett

      Thats like saying to pay down $100,000 credit card debt you should pull up the sofa cushions and get the pennies rather than getting a second job. I think ending two wars, repeal the Bush tax cuts and stop paying out social security to old people who dont need it is a start. I won't even act like I know the solution to our healthcare problem, hopefully it gets figured out.

      July 1, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
      • jean2009

        Couldn't have said it better.

        As for Health Care I suggest reading:
        Mandating People to Buy Health Care...John Adams 1798.
        News: President Signs Health Care Insurance Mandate 212 Years Ago.
        How Congress Created Socialized Medicine in 1798

        July 2, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        So Jean ... what you are refering to is the act regarding sick and disabled seamen... Hmmm it was not mandated for all people to pay for this service ... just sick and disabled seamen... SO there is a difference.... What this mean is that not everyone was mandated to buy into this healthcare... That being the case it is really not socialized.... but really more like healthcare we have today ..... just managed by the government since there were no healthcare companies back then.

        Midwashed Democratic Socialist ... grasping at every straw! They don't even understand what they have been told to parrot .....

        Bet you will shout about the GOP and Medicare ....LOL .... Obamacare cuts that up into little bitty pieces as part of the cost savings that aregoing to pay for Obama care .... moer than a little hypocritical there...

        July 3, 2011 at 12:31 am |
      • Bill in STL

        seriously jean, which website dd yo get yours from .... datehookup.com.... really it is out there...idlehour had a post that lookeda lot like yours....

        July 4, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • kake79

      You do realize that these people are helping to run a country of 300 million, right? Does the government have waste they could cut? Oh, I feel absolutely certain of that. But I think you're focusing on the wrong area here.

      July 1, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
    • che-3

      It's illiterate and uneducated IDIOTS like you that will be crying for Prez. Obama to take care of you when you're hit by tornado or storm or your house or state is 50-feet under water and holding unto the only possession you have. Your silly cat and weeping for the SAME Pres. Obama you hate sooooo much to pay you a visit. Don't you know that with 2-wars our soldiers’ needs his 24/7 attention and that you need to fend for yourself than crying on CNN and accusing Pres. Obama not paying you a visit? Will that be BIG Gov’t that you will be crying like a cat dipped in oil to save you or Rush or Glen Beck ant hole Gov’t? See 1st grade Education in Civic lessons. That might help you to know how important Gov’t is. You’re REAL disgrace to America by your illiteracy. And you call yourself so0-called American?

      July 1, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
      • Bill in Stl

        Che ... you are an IDIOT. I have been through a tornado and list it all ... no goverment help .. .lets see that was Clinton ... my house burned to the ground ... and lets see that was Clinton again ... No help..... IF you think that the answer to all things is government involvment then I will buy you a plan ticket to Venezuela.... One way of course.

        July 2, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
      • maikl

        TO CHE 3. Yes I will cry of happiness in 2012 when this naive,Small communist agitator will receive pink slip and will out of white house for good.

        July 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
      • jean2009

        I agree Che-3:

        First most of these people talking on here don't have a clue...and don't believe Bill in Stl from what I read he is always the first crying. He comes up with some of the most ridiculous unfounded figures. Even the tax rates under Clinton for the highest earners were less than 50%..he pulls these figures out of the either.

        I know people who were flooded out out of their home 3 times and each time they when back and threw good money after bad....and it was under the Clinton administration that they finally stepped in an bought out the homes on that flood plain.

        These people can't grasp that people can work hard all their lives pay their bills, raise their family, pay taxes, and then one day at about 45 that little problem with the right hand and the right foot is diagnosed as a crippling neurological disorder that will leave that person in a wheelchair with heavy medical expenses...until the disease takes them.

        They haven't a clue that people can work hard all their lives pay their bills and taxes, and one afternoon all they have worked for is blown away in the wind.

        They haven't a clue that people can work hard all their lives, pay their bills, their taxes; and then one day their 19 year old child is in an automobile accident, a child that is no longer covered under the family insurance plan...the accident leaves the child on life support before their death six years later....and the cost for the medical and nursing home care financially wipes out the families' savings and leaves them in unbelievable debt.

        All they whine about is a black man being president, paying taxes, and a bunch of other inconsequential idiocy like how many trips the president takes.

        Gee it must be nice ...when the only thing you have to complain about is being fortunate enough to fall into a higher tax bracket.

        July 2, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Dear Jean, I am now going to do something I have never done before.

        Jean You are a complete out andout lying B*tch. I have rebuilt my life on my own with no help from any communist like you and Che.. Oh and in a different city by the way .... I have rebuilt my life from a fire that destroyed my posessions AND all of my families by myself with no help from any communist like you and che or the party you support. I have had 3 heart attack and I am a diabetic on top of it all.... I take care of my bills and I have a loving and wonderfuil famil\y. I have done these things on my own and I am proud of the accomplishment.

        UNLIKE you and che I don NOT believe that I want covernment or any meddeling a$$holes like you involved in my life. Up to this point I have only pointed out thoughts and thinkgs that you can verify on the internet... BUTm in true mindwashed Democratic Socialist fashion you rant and rave an point fingers at me and others like me whohave at least accomplished somehting in our lives rahter than suck the otherperson dry,. I will buy two plane tickets, one way of course, for both you and Che to Venezuela.... perhaps you can become buddies with Hugo.

        July 3, 2011 at 12:17 am |
  5. pj

    Those are pretty reasonable, considering that most of them probably never have any time off and are on call 24/7.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • Lagos

      I agree that the pay rates are reasonable, but when you factor in benefits, maybe a little bit too much. But not super-crazy.

      July 1, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
    • Just Sayin

      So am I ... and I would 80 hour weeks ... but I don't make as much as most of them .... So how is that reasonable in my prespective.

      July 2, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
  6. DanDaMan

    $37 million/year for staff????

    July 1, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • SRN0vA

      Yes, the staff of the President of the Super-Power in the world. This isn't an auto-body shop. Ignorance is bliss.

      July 1, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • Notfooled

      Put it this way--Some CEO'S make 37 million a year profit. Their corporation makes a lot more then that and yet some of these corporations pay no taxes through loop holes. I think 37 million for running this country and all it entails is reasonable.

      July 2, 2011 at 10:03 pm |
  7. SDCore

    I'm just impressed that for only $50,000 Harrison Ford will work for the president

    July 1, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
    • SDCore

      And apparantley so does Jon Favreau

      July 1, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
  8. Sal

    We have to stop getting into all these perpetual wars, and that will save a lot of money. When will we learn? Apparently never. 

    July 1, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
    • Bill in Stl

      The same could be be said the other way ... Like what happend to the US prior to WW1 and WW2??? great loss of life at least before WW2 and you would think that we would have learned our lesson then too,..... can't have it both ways!

      July 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
      • jean2009

        Bill in Stl

        Why would the government pay to rebuild your house after a fire...did you not have fire insurance? Was it due to a forest fire?
        And do you not have health insurance?

        You didn't elaborate on the tornado!

        I'm just stating, I know people who under President Clinton after being flooded out 3 previous times had their home purchased by the government, and the area was turned into a flood plain that no one builds on.

        The government can't help it if you don't ask for help when it is needed ...but if you want to go it alone...don't complain about what you had to do for yourself. If you do ask and they don't help when they should have, that is a different matter.

        If you are an internet researcher I'll eat my hat.

        Thanks...I'll forgo the airfare...I'm happy where I am...you however sound out of sorts about living in this wonderful country.

        Communist...LOL!

        July 3, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Enough, Jean you are without a doubt the worst spokesman for you party and its goals... You apperently do not comprehend what what John Adams signed else your comments would be different.

        As far as the tornado is concerned, whats to mention or elaborate on? A pile of sticks is a pile of sticks. I made to much money to get any assistance... And I took the insurance mnoey and re-built elsewhere... Or is yor mind to small to comprehend that fact. Insurance does not give you replacement value so there are natutrally things that are left out since they have depreciated to 0 dollar value. But I suppose you don't realize that either. Fire Insurance, please get real ... its called home owners insurance... you obviously have never been in that position since you can't even identify it correctly.

        I realize you will be happier here ... No one in Government in Venezuela would put up with you mouth....

        Now lets addres one more things ... each and everytime you warm up the old fingers to type, you display what a self righteous, and ignorant person you really are and those are exactly what the dempcratic party are looking for. Some on who is easily duped and can be fed false and twisted information.

        July 3, 2011 at 10:55 pm |
      • jean2009

        @Bill in Stl....I fully understand what John Adams signed...and you frankly haven't a clue as to how the Marine Hospital System was created, or how the Public Health System came about.

        Ship owners were fined $100 for failing to account properly or pay the insurance collected for each seaman on their vessel.

        "In 1798, Congress passed, and John Adams signed into law "An Act for the Relief of Sick or Disabled Seamen," authorizing a marine hospital service, and mandating privately employed seamen to purchase health care insurance...the fee at that time was 20 cents per month.

        The legislation created the first payroll tax, as a shipowner was required to deduct 20 cents from each sailor's pay and forward it to the marine service, which in turn provided sick or injured sailors hospital care. Failure to pay or account properly was discouraged by requiring a law that violating owners or ship's captain to pay a $100 fine."

        The sick or injured sailor had to get a voucher from the ship owner stating that his insurance was paid before he could be treated at a marine hospital.

        Just type into your search engine: John Adams signed a health insurance mandate July 28, 1798.

        Or better yet, read the first paragraph of John Adam's State of the Union Address for December 8, 1798 which is posted online at: www Presidential Rhetoric com historic speeches adams state of the union 1798html

        Don't you know there is a wealth of information about this online...factually with dates.

        Frankly fellow I don't know where you come up with your lame bit of calling a person a liar bit ...without your checking facts .... I don't make up things, I don't make up history... I just happen to be a history buff.

        Just because what I've posted doesn't square with your moronic Teaparty/Fox right-wing radical nonsense doesn't mean it isn't fact.

        July 5, 2011 at 9:11 pm |
      • jean2009

        I would also suggest reading:

        The Cry Wolf Project : Marine Hospitals by Gautham Rao for the History Department New Jersey Institute of Technology.

        July 5, 2011 at 9:48 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Your statement below is not quite the way it works today is it.... Where do you have to go to get that voucher today? The problem with health cares is that un-insured are treated and those of us that do pay ... are the ones that pay for all ... already

        The sick or injured sailor had to get a voucher from the ship owner stating that his insurance was paid before he could be treated at a marine hospital.

        as for your statement – Just type into your search engine: John Adams signed a health insurance mandate July 28, 1798.

        Just go to the library of congress and see how narrow the scope of that was.... It was controlled by a voucher provided by the ship owner... not a governmental agency "Big Brothering" you

        Or better yet, read the first paragraph of John Adam's State of the Union Address for December 8, 1798 which is posted online at: www Presidential Rhetoric com historic speeches adams state of the union 1798html

        As to this statement – "Don't you know there is a wealth of information about this online...factually with dates." all I can say to you is don't be absurd! There are in fact many things posted about this very topic, I choose to go to the source... not someone else.

        As to this – Frankly fellow I don't know where you come up with your lame bit of calling a person a liar bit ...without your checking facts .... I don't make up things, I don't make up history... I just happen to be a history buff. ... Well so am I, but I choose to get my information from as many sources as I can ... not someone with an opinion... as to the liar part... I do understand what it is to have your life blown away in the wind or go up insmoke.... yet in your post to me you make light of it and say I don't know.

        Just because what I've posted doesn't square with your moronic Teaparty/Fox right-wing radical nonsense doesn't mean it isn't fact.

        and as to this last fact I find this to be deliberately offensive, far more offensive than you can imagine. I havs studied the constitution and all of its amendments. I find the current political climate more like a cesspool....

        Finally a thought from Thomas Jefferson.. lets see if you can figure it out.. Doe it apply ???

        The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.

        This still applies to day and to all people active in their parties politics and not the good of the country.

        July 6, 2011 at 12:00 am |
  9. Bud Bottle Guy

    Those salaries don't look outrageous to me, and I bet they are hard earned as well.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
    • Bill in Stl

      Maybe ... Maybe noit.... who knows??? Do you?

      July 2, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
  10. marcalvr

    There's only one Legal Assistant in the White House? This makes me question the date in its entirety.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
  11. DC_Greg

    I was expecting them to be making a lot more. I'm 3 years out of college and making more than half these guys and I probably live in the same neighborhood as them.

    July 1, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
    • Bill in Stl

      Only if the provate sector survives ... then yes you will do a lot better....

      July 2, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
  12. Nick

    I like how the ethics advisor is paid a crapload of money

    July 1, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
    • Bill in Stl

      Researhcer make 42k .. not bad for surfeing the internet

      July 2, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
  13. Bob

    That is reported $

    July 1, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
  14. price

    454 employees??? What part of America doesn't operate if you let go of 200 of these people? I want to see Congress's list.

    July 1, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
  15. John Wilson

    These are political patronage jobs, nothing more nothing less, tha'st why there's so many. How much of their pay is kicked back, oops, I mean voluntarily contributed to the Democratic party and the re-elect the president fund?

    July 1, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
  16. bill Lewinsky

    I guess the pay is better now as opposed to the past when some only got a cigar and shake.

    July 1, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
  17. Will

    I think the salaries are fine... I suspect the size of the staff.... all staffs in DC could be cut by a 15-20%. And lets not forget that the contacts made, and the shear power of position, and being able to put on a resume that you worked on the white house staff... well, I think in 95% of the cases in the future the money will come.

    July 1, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
  18. slim32

    Dang, 454 employees and a total payroll of over $37 Million. 141 of these employees make $100,000 or more, with 21 of them making $172,200 per year. The average White House employee makes $81,765 per year. We are running 9% unemployment, but at least it is good to see our "Public Servants" aren't struggling any.

    Keep in mind though, the massive size of our government is NOT the problem. No, it is corporate jets. Of course that does not include the most used corporate jet fleet in the world, the 0bama – Biden corporate jets are always on the go. Flying Barry O' Bama to drink some Guinness beer while tracing his Irish roots, flying Michelle to Africa, flying to date nights in New York none of that is the problem. Nope, it is all those "fat cat corporate execs" jet setting around that is killing us. LOL

    July 1, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
  19. yeah....right!!!

    To Done...
    How does 70% of what you make go to healthcare? On the same website, it shows your federal taxpayer receipt. Of every dollar that you pay in income tax, roughly 24 cents goes to healthcare. Include state tax, medicare withholdings, etc., whatever you want. This will still won't come out to 70% Please enlighten us with your amazing Math skills. No doubt the problem lies with the fact that less than 5 cents goes to education.

    To War Eagle 22...
    I can't tell if this is sarcasm but I hope it is. 454 employees is a bit excessive. Tripling their salaries sounds like a great solution for our economy since they are doing such a great job with it right now.

    To David Carter...
    I would say that they are getting paid too much. Now if they do the same job with one fourth the personnel then you might be correct. This only lists the salaries and not benefits (which are many).

    To Ketrout...
    I couldn't agree with you more.

    To pj...
    I doubt that many of them are on call 24/7. If you can provide documentation on that rather than blindly defending this administrations waste, I would like to see it.

    July 1, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
  20. thinkforourfuture

    These salaries really pose a threat to our national security. We should immediately raise everyone to at least $150,000.00. Some of these empolyees are vunerable to outside influence given the small amount of money they earn compared with the high cost of living in D.C. We should really think about what could happen to the $42,000 a year employee being approached and bribed by a plethora of interest groups. Classified government information could be leaked or sold. As the saying goes, "You get what you pay for."

    July 1, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
  21. viranka

    i have to live on fixed income under 16,000 a year including frozen cost of living raise for two years. and these people can;t live on 70-90,000 a year. i live like a dog and you expect me to feel sorry for these people!! let me say i;m being nice about this comment. thanks gov for putting me in the poor house and in a hole i will never get out of.....

    July 1, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
  22. che-3

    The President’s staff should be PAID more than any Republican in the Senate or the House including orange, pinky, tanned, man and drunken cry-baby John Boehner since these so-called flag waving Republican don't even know much about American History yet; they want Mexican Amigos to know American History. The president’s staff works 24/7 whilst these Republicans only work ONLY weeks in a month. In every country including 3rd. World countries every 2-yr. knows a lot about their countries history unlike these illiterate, uneducated, exam cheating Republicans. How can you be wrapping yourself in American Flag as Republican and STILL have NO clue about American History or your so-called motherland?
    Oh yea that crazy racist presidential candidate calling herself "John Wayne Gacy the EVIL white clown of 39 kid killer".

    July 1, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      Every time che-3 post a comment Barry's approval rating drops. Keep up the good work che-3 !

      July 2, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
    • Bill in Stl

      Che don't worry ... after the latest appeals court decision.. Citizens of the US will be required to volunteer 50%of their net wages to pay the deficit and support people like you .... I am sure you have no idea what I am talking about. AND from now on I don't want to hear any more un-funded mandate crying from the states.... I predicited that Health care would find a sympathetic ear and that the requirement to pay or be fined would survive and now I predict that the precedent is set ... watchyour wallets!

      July 2, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
  23. KatR

    Good to read this list of White House employees with names and positions. Is there legislation that requires doing the same for members of Congress and their staff? Or our Supreme Court? Probably not.

    July 2, 2011 at 9:40 am |
    • Bill in Stl

      If one falmily takes 37 million ... that would 350+ members of congres take??? and then all federal judges??? You can pay for it KatR!

      July 2, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
      • jean2009

        @Bill in Stl ....You didn't read the articles did you?

        Are you moronic. Of course, the people who paid for the insurance were the well and working sailors and it was withheld from their salaries. Who for the love of heaven would sell an already sick washed-up sailor a health insurance policy? I can't see that being a hard sell! Our founding fathers were not that far off in reasoning powers.

        "The law was not only the first time the United States created a socialized medical program (The Marine Hospital Service) but was also the first to mandate that privately employed citizens be legally required to make payments to pay for health care services. Upon passage of the law, ships were no longer permitted to sail in and out of our ports if the health care tax had not been collected by the ship owners and paid over to the government – thus the creation of the first payroll tax in our nation’s history.

        When a sick or injured sailor needed medical assistance, the government would confirm that his payments had been collected and turned over by his employer and would then give the sailor a voucher entitling him to admission to the hospital where he would be treated for whatever ailed him.

        While a few of the healthcare facilities accepting the government voucher were privately operated, the majority of the treatment was given out at the federal maritime hospitals that were built and operated by the government in the nation’s largest ports.

        As the nation grew and expanded, the system was also expanded to cover sailors working the private vessels sailing the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.

        So perfectly healthy sailors were paying for health care coverage through a mandated insurance in 1798... and it has never been repealed. The Marine Health Service Act of 1798 eventually became the Public Health Service.

        July 3, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Jean I would suggest that you read the words again and this time read the words and not someones opion. From the history of Congress..

        The bill for the relief of sick and disabled seamen (Which provides that every seamen belonging to the Unites States shall pay twenty cents a month out of his wages for the relief of sailors in distress and for the erecting of hospitals) having been read the third time, and the question pof passage being put...

        So as you can see the language affects only seamen and not the rest of the country!

        Again yes I did read both your articles ... but I went to the source ... the library of congress for the final word.... and it appears you are wrong... Yes I can research and yes it is far more complete than yours!

        July 3, 2011 at 11:03 pm |
      • jean2009

        No denying there is the individual mandate. So I take it that it doesn't matter to you.... that they were seamen on privately owned vessels?

        July 5, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • KatR

      I researched and found a website that provided names and numbers for Congressional salaries. New Senator Paul Rand pulls in a salary that's half of what the Prez gets. Looked up the Senators that represent my state and was mortified! EACH of them pulls in over $1 million taxpayer dollars. That's because they have been in office forever. It's way past time for a Constitutional amendment to limit terms in Congress.

      July 3, 2011 at 7:54 am |
      • Bill in STL

        I am not suprised at all.... nor am I shocked. Do you remember Tip O'niel? research him and his later days. When you have the opportunity you will do things like give youself an automatic pay raise that always kicks in unless you vote not to.... Use the congressional post office like an ATM, provide your self with one sweet pension deal and first class tickets on aircraft (no longer done) better health care than the people you represent (and it is still that way)..... and best of all you have people out there that believe you no matter what!

        July 3, 2011 at 11:10 pm |
  24. shivic2012

    I would rather know how much they actually cost us in terms of all the benefits they get.

    July 2, 2011 at 2:55 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      This is a summary page for a GAO report concerning that very topic, please understand this is from October 1995 so I am sure the cost has risen.

      Pursuant to a congressional request, GAO provided information on the proposal to change the congressional retirement system, focusing on: (1) the cost of congressional retirement benefits; (2) the potential savings from the proposal; (3) how private sector retirement systems compare with the congressional retirement system; and (4) the extent to which private sector employers are replacing defined benefit pension plans with defined contribution plans. GAO noted that: (1) the estimated cost of providing future retirement benefits to 1994 Congressional members would total $14,327,224; (2) over a 5-year period, the cost of providing retirement benefits would total $71.5 million; (3) if the proposal were enacted, it would significantly reduce the cost of Member retirement programs; (4) the cost of providing retirement benefits to 1994 Congressional staff members would total $116.5 million; (5) although federal employees receive greater benefit amounts under the Civil Service Retirement System than nonfederal employees before age 62, they receive smaller amounts after age 62 and older when social security benefits are available to nonfederal employees; and (6) the private sector does not appear to be moving toward replacing defined benefit plans with defined contribution plans.

      July 3, 2011 at 11:17 pm |
  25. chuck

    I hope their resumes are up to date, they'll all be looking for a new job in Jan. 2013

    July 2, 2011 at 4:22 pm |
  26. anonymous

    The following is an exact reproduction. Notice George W. is not mentioned anywhere in the letter. Can you spot the untrue statements?

    Tuesday, June 7, 2011

    Dear Charlotte,

    I have something really important to talk to you about but first, I want to apologize for taking so long to send
    this letter and to tell you doing so is very humbling. I should have sent this letter years ago but I didn't know
    then near as much as I know now. Also because of the danger in writing you I hope you respect the need for
    me to keep my personal identify anonymous but I will tell you I am part of the Bush family. Luckily our family
    is large and most already know what I know if not more.

    To begin, if you knew what I know you would know my family members are not your friends. They not only
    don't like you, they in fact hate you. At the same time I need to let you know what you have said regarding the
    Bible Code and Jason is true. It's not just in your head. I know you know that but I know if I were you at
    some point I would wonder myself especially with everyone who knows the truth remaining silent. But what I
    am writing to you about today is what I doubt you know although I may be wrong.

    First I want you to know although my family was extremely disappointed as I'm sure you were when Bill
    Clinton won the election in 1992, it was for the best. I say that because there is evidence a plan formed by and
    during my family's first administration would have led to your demise as soon as Jason was found and
    dentified. When I say your demise I am referring to either your death or an alteration of your mind. It's not
    easy for me to tell you this but we also know your mother and step father knew of the plan and were in
    agreement. The plan was to take you away from Jason and have your memory altered so you wouldn't
    remember ever meeting him.

    In all fairness to my family though I have to tell you the Clinton folks were no saints either. They had plans for
    killing you in Pasadena, California when you and Jason ran the dog grooming shop in 1997 but not at first. I
    understand they sent several of their people into the Dog Wash on Arroyo Parkway to test your memory and
    find out what you knew. Their purpose was to give you the information and then retreat and remain quiet
    making Jason think you were out of your mind in your beliefs. When they realized you didn't remember
    anything, they thought they could get away with killing you. Joanne Nagem who at the time lived in South
    Carolina was one of the people they sent. She caught hell for telling you her husband was a retired physicist.
    They knew you would remember that and identify her later. I don't know if you remember this but they also
    sent in a beautiful woman who was in her early forties with straight shoulder length blonde hair. She worked
    for the White House. She told you if you and Jason needed any financial help to just ask and they would get it
    to you in the form of a "grant" or whatever. I bet she never came back and I bet if you ever took her up on the
    offer you would have received nothing. They purposely spoke to you only while Jason was in the back room
    and unable to see them. I heard about the day Joanne Nagem showed up and was surprised when your
    stepbrother Tommy came out to listen to what she was saying to you. Apparently Tommy's surprise appearance
    made her give up way more personal info than she was suppose to. I was told when Tommy asked Joanne who
    she was Joanne replied, "mother nature". Oh my God, why she didn't come up with something better than that
    only goes to show how out of it she was. I guess she couldn't see the joke was going to be on her. Not to take
    away from the seriousness of the matter since they did have plans to kill you however you and Jason suddenly
    closed the Dog Wash with no warning at all and they had no way of following through with their plan which
    was to have you killed in what would have looked like a robbery at the Dog Wash. I knew Bill Clinton was
    behind that plan and I was right.

    What I'm going to tell you next is still almost impossible for me to believe however if they would do what
    they've done to you I wouldn't doubt what I've been told about this either. Remember Princess Diana and Dodi
    Fayed? I don't know if they are dead now but I do know they were not really dead in 1998 long after the car
    crash that supposedly killed them both. That entire scene was faked and made to appear Diana and Dodi were
    dead when in fact the bodies that were buried were of different people. Diana and Dodi were brought to the
    United States where they were kept hidden. The reason being when Diana found out about the Bible Code and
    Jason she vowed to "tell the world". Prince Charles and his mother wanted to shut her up and so that's the way
    they did it. I understand Clinton's people tried to threaten you into silence by showing you Diana and Dodi in
    1998 in Columbia, South Carolina. I'm not sure of the location or exact circumstances however I was told Bill
    Clinton's folks flaunted Diana and Dodi in front of your face to scare you into realizing what they would do to
    you too if you didn't shut up about Jason and the Bible Code. I was told Diana immediately recognized you and
    Jason and hugged you both. I wonder if you remember this. It's important that you do and you tell what
    happened. If they would do this to Diana and Dodi and keep it quiet all these years you have to tell what you
    know. I do know it's only by a miracle of God that you walked away from them alive that day. I really want to
    know exactly what happened and only you can tell. You have to finish your screenplay if it's not already done
    and include this information.

    The rest I know you remember since it has been well documented by you in letters and Internet postings. Yes,
    the situation that transpired in Maine certainly was planned and there again only by the grace of God are you
    alive. I want you to know as long as you are alive and until the truth comes out you will continue to be in
    danger.

    As far as the current situation goes, from what I've heard no one in my family actually knows what the Obama
    administration has been up to with you or if they have even been informed of the situation. They are being
    very quiet. I bet they have and are simply waiting for you to have another breakdown so they can take
    advantage and either try to kill you or have you committed. I heard at one point they were apparently going to
    try to infect you with a deadly virus but living in the middle of nowhere in Texas made that unfeasible simply
    because it would have been far too suspect. Be sure they will use corrupt police personnel since the feds are
    still trying to lay low on this situation. Trust me, corrupt or not, policemen are usually more than happy to do
    anything asked of them to help feds out in hopes of getting hired by the Secret Service or something. Right now
    if I were you I would worry about being attacked at your house again and you better believe the police in
    Florida are among the most corrupt in the nation. Even more so than Texas and Maine.

    I know you thought you knew my family well and believe in them. Most everyone feels like you that they are
    honest, God fearing people. But the truth is they are not honest. Yes God fearing and maybe that's what sent
    them down the path they went. They also probably fear their secrets will come out if the truth about
    Jason is known. I can guarantee you there has been ample opportunity for the truth to be told but it never has.
    Most of all don't believe they were forced to be quiet. They weren't. They have been just as involved in the
    cover ups as they were in the plans to harm you. As far as I'm concerned they have betrayed not only God but
    every member of our family who is innocent and had nothing to do with this gargantuan catastrophe.

    I also need to tell you, do not trust Richard Probert. He is probably the worst guy in the world. I'm sure you
    won't be surprised to hear he is a trader but you may be surprised to hear he's a closet gay. He us to browse
    gay bars in Atlanta and Miami on Saturday and Sunday nights looking for gays to hook up with. On Sundays
    they called it "Sneaky Sundays". On Friday nights he would go to straight bars with the guys from the firms he
    worked at to make everyone think he was straight. He reports anything he hears from or about you. He is
    sadistic. During 1994 at one point before you met Jason they thought he was the one and they had Richard
    thinking it himself. He is crazy and as power hungry as they come. At one point he actually thought one day he
    would be President. It will take a miracle cure to stop him from being a total loon.

    There is someone I think you can trust but I won't put a name in this letter. I will send you a clue and I'm
    certain you will agree. I don't know exactly what this person knows but given who it is I can assure you this
    person knows more than most. If you can't get the truth out I'm afraid to know what is in store for those of us
    who are good. I have on many occassions expressed my shame and disgust for all that has happened and that
    my own blood is involved in the cover up. To think the public actually still thinks the "big government secret"
    has to do with aliens from out space. I hate to think what's going to happen when they find out the truth.
    Because of this I have no idea if I'm even safe now and I'm not so sure I can trust my own family. So I
    plead with you to keep pushing foward and bring the screenplay up to date.

    Until then know it is a fact I have made it clear I will go directly to the media to share everything I know if I
    find out anyone makes trouble for you or Jason again. The latest excuse my family gives now for not telling the
    truth is they are afraid if they do tell all hell will break loose and everyone will go crazy when the world finds
    out who Jason is. I have to admit I too have given serious thought to that as well but I don't think that should
    stand in the way of the truth. The world is not going right and there's a reason for Jason's return. As you know
    people are waiting and are ready. I keep telling them this news will come as a total shock to most people and I
    don't believe all hysteria will break out if everyone is seriously told to stay calm and by all means, stay home.
    I'm sure if they hear it from Jason they will stay calm. I believe at this point he is our only hope. Because of this,
    I would like to meet with you and Jason sometime in the very near future. I will give you time to think about it
    and get back in touch with you to find out when and where if you are willing. I can't imagine you wouldn't be.
    Jason's got to come through and believe what we know to be true or the world is doomed to God knows what.

    July 3, 2011 at 9:22 am |
    • jean2009

      Conspiracy theories again!

      July 3, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        You would know jean,,,, you spout them all the time!

        July 3, 2011 at 11:05 pm |
  27. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Jean does not base her opinions on anyone elses opinion, all she doesn't already know herself, she researches! Bill in STL!! And does it thoroughly and well; just like Jay seems to try to request everybody to do! So you can stop accusing her of using other folks opinions; furthermore, she is one of the greatest, intelligent, well-read supporters of PRES OBAMA and the Democratic Party on this blog! Thanks Jean! I agree with your findings and analogy.

    July 3, 2011 at 11:25 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      hat is so obvious Liz ... just like you ... I got the information I posted above from the library of congress ... .Jean did not ... she has someones opinion... JUST like you ... Jean believes someones opinion over historical record.

      As for well read ... not so much ... she has not read the original bill or the history of the bill... Just like you she is grasping at anything she can to justify her position even if she misinterprets it ... Just Like You!

      July 4, 2011 at 12:58 am |
      • jean2009

        Frankly we all pay for the uninsured...for those of us who carry insurance we pay for the uninsured in higher premiums. Even the federal government through Medicare pays higher amounts because people who are uninsured wait until they are really sick before going to the Emergency Room.

        Emergency Room care is the most expensive way to treat sick people.

        That same reason is what the Marine Health Insurance Act of 1798 was all about. That is what the health insurance mandate in The Health Reform Act of 2010 is about today. If you cannot see that you have missed a lot.

        There is a great difference between giving a person who is down a hand up, and in giving a person a handout...obviously it takes too much effort for some people to know the difference.

        July 5, 2011 at 10:09 pm |
      • Jay in NC

        The problem Jean is not the lack of health insurance it is that hospitals admit non emergency patients in to the emergency room. These people should be screened and then refereed to their local county clinic for treatment. Laws need to be changed to allow this, local clinics could set up office at the hospital. Also do a campaign to inform these people were they can go instead of the emergency rooms.

        If these people had heath insurance they will still go to the emergency room for a cold. The culture has to change.

        July 5, 2011 at 10:25 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Especially you jean,

        Lets try this another way, who would collect the 20 cents from each farmer in Ohio? They were self employed, and when medical treatment was required they found a way to get it and pay for it, all by themselves. hey did not need John Adams or Barack Obama to prvide it for them.

        The disabled seamen act, as I have said before is more like our healthcare was rather than what it will be in 2014. The fees were paid to a group that would manage them... The people that were held accountable were the companies that employed those seamen, not the seamen themselves. The federal government issued no regulation that allowed any court or government entity to monitor the individual. Those things were taken care of at a business level.

        A far larger problem is now there are a lot of health care provider, (whatever they may be) that are no longer accepting medicaid and even medicare in some cases. Bad payment records are mostly to blame for that, mostly in the length of time it takes to get paid for service rendered.

        Take the State of Illinois, were our president is from, there are some companies there that are owed millions and have been owed that for months and in some cases years. The taxes in Illinois are higher than most midwestert states and yet bad management has brought them to the brink.

        July 5, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
  28. Bill in STL

    I am begining to believe that Jean and Lia are one in the same!

    July 4, 2011 at 12:59 am |
  29. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Bill, it's not hate, it's a battle of intellect and you don't want a woman to beat you out! You are the one who hates me and her! You are the one who will twist and mince words to support your position! You would be just find if folks were reading and usinging your opinions; incorporating them into their own! BTW, NO. We're not the same. Jean is more up on historical politics and it's repurcussions than I! I learn from her. She is my blog teacher! I'm not a hater; I CAN give credit where credit is due!

    July 4, 2011 at 6:36 am |
    • Bill in STL

      who said anything about hate Liz? YOU? If she is your mentor then you are in a world of hurt. who said anything about gender? YOU! again you play all the cards on gender, hate, and i only wonder when you will make it a trifecta! for your own sake and to enlighten your mind on your own, please go to the library of congress and look up the act, that is if you don't trust what I have re-posted here.

      and one more thing, ehat does that have to do with white house salaries? which is what drew my attentio in the first place.... this is not the forum for that debate... So your both wrong...

      What I don't like is ignoranve, and when that ignorance is pronounced from on high,,, well you know the rest. I will tell you again as I often have.... I don't hold any punches from either party... they both are equally worthy of ridicule... I hit both sides when I catch them in a falsehood.... it just seems that liberals get caught more often.... thats all.

      July 4, 2011 at 11:44 am |
  30. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Bill, read your post from this am July 4, 2011 12:58 am ET. You brought up hate, Buddy! Unless you meant to say 'hat', I took it as your misspelled version of 'hate'! We are all guilty of 'misspells', but you are guilty of them more than many. LOL! However, as long as I can decipher it or interpret what you may be trying to say, I don't question it nor point it out. YES! I brought up gender because that's my opinion of you. You seem to always question intellect, debate and argue with women most of the time!

    July 4, 2011 at 8:17 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      That was the word Liz..... You see what I mean about always assuming the worst... you have done it again. I will offer my apologies for the missing T but nothing more..... Sister....

      And as usual your opinion means more than actual fact...

      July 5, 2011 at 12:25 am |
  31. Liz Carter in Georgia

    FYI, I have questioned my party and it's obvious weakness to your party, causing us to be hindered from going all the way, i.e., healthcare; just getting half-way on what was promised to us. BTW, I do frequent the library, so I am aware enough of most things that I can make an educated opinion or good guess on what is closer to being right. I'm also teachable; something that I find you're not! It's your way or the highway on everything. You have no respect for anyones IQ nor opinion except your own! SAD!

    July 4, 2011 at 8:39 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      No you are not teachable .... that is what is sad .... and in your own words you only question your party on why you did not get far enough.... I question both on their ethical points and if what they are doing is good for this country.... You on the other hand question your party and denounce the others ... Not quite the same there is it.

      July 5, 2011 at 12:27 am |
  32. Liz Carter in Georgia

    What was the word? 'Hat' or 'HATE'? Missing 'T' or missing 'E'? Hatt or Hate? If it's hatt, I don't know what that is...teach me....Brother! If it's hate, I KNOW what that is! I said that Jeans' debate with you was not based on other folks opinions...you came back at me saying 'hat is so obvious Liz..just like you...'. When I replied, you asked me 'who said anything about hate, Liz'? Accusing me of entering hate and gender into the discussion! Gender, YES; Hate, NO! I pointed out WHO said it; you HATE that!

    July 5, 2011 at 7:43 am |
    • Bill in STL

      So much for intellect, I even Capitalized the T .... The word was THAT, Even my 10 year old grandson knows there is more than one place you can put a T..... So you really have a one sided view of this entire argument.... The sentance is supposed to be That is so obvious Liz.... and now you proveit is... Still apologize about the missing T.

      July 5, 2011 at 6:55 pm |
  33. Liz Carter in Georgia

    About my questioning any one of the two parties, I question them as I please or feel the need. Most of the time my questions are moreso 'ethical', rather than political! I question what I feel is not good for the country, especially socially. I question differences, double and sometimes triple standards being used for or against one person vs another, one group or race over another, one party vs another, one official vs another, one President vs another, etc., the unethical underlining societal/social bias.

    July 5, 2011 at 8:16 am |
    • Bill in STL

      You qiestion them as you please..... Well that explains why you are so one sided....

      You question them Ethically???? I doubt that, this nonsense about the disable seaman rather effectively shuts that down. You question them socially,,, yes I am sure of that .... you would rather have a social solution that makes you feel good than worry about who is going to pay for it.

      BOTH parties apply double and triple standards .... so that is a non issue to me.

      Regarding race .. that is your choice and you choose to color your preception of the world in terms of race. I do not, I question policies and actions, but never race and I defy you to find any post I have ever made that uses the word race or racist in a derogaroty manned, I have denied your accusations of being racist but that is all. The President is the president, the office is due respect, however you can dissent against the policies that flow from that office. I seem to still find personal attacks for other past presidents, most of them conservative, from liberals. Name calling and assigning labels is the worst kind of stero typing, don't you think?

      July 5, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
  34. Liz Carter in Georgia

    So for you to claim that you question both parties on the 'ethical-ness' of what they're doing is good for the country is of no consequence if we can't be 'ethical' and fair-minded to one another, period! As long as there are class, race, supremacy, subserviency, and inequality wars going on in America; and there are, whatever your perception is of what's good for the country, will not work! I've seen many of your opinionated, analogical beaurecratic posts, but yet to read one 'ETHICAL' comment from you.

    July 5, 2011 at 8:57 am |
    • Bill in STL

      I am still having trouble understanding your meaning in this sentance..

      So for you to claim that you question both parties on the 'ethical-ness' of what they're doing is good for the country is of no consequence if we can't be 'ethical' and fair-minded to one another, period!

      I presume their is some punctuation missing....

      What is good for this country is that which promotes the opportuntiy to advance yourself beyond where you were... To give you the chance to be proud of your accomplisments and not the fact that it was given to you. Realizing that this idea of course, is not universally recognized by any people in this great country, it is of course what I strive for and what I have taught my children.

      Liz, those ideas of Class, race, subserviency, and inequality wars are right at the forefront of your mind.... you are ready and more than willing to yell about it ... On the other hand I ten to ignore those things, they are something that I choose not to take part in..... It really is suprising and disappointing to me to try to talk about the common good, insert the continued ideals of this country, and to try to evolve those ideals, to be accused of that which I detest the most. Teh deliberate use by liberals of class war speach when describing me. No Liz you are not teachable.

      July 5, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
  35. Liz Carter in Georgia

    About my 'denouncing' the others, I don't quite understand what you mean! First you said I didn't question both parties and when I showed you proof that I did, I didn't hear an apology only more rhetoric. Unless you mean my questioning of the GOPs', con-medias' and you Conservative right-wing leaning bloggers unfair and deliberate attempts of mis-informational attacks and lies against the President of the United States and the Democratic Party then, YES! I do denounce them! JUST LIKE YOU DO, for your party!

    July 5, 2011 at 9:54 am |
    • Bill in STL

      Lets see... you question your precieved parties weakness when dealing with the GOP.

      I question the advisability of raising taxes during a recession (liberal)
      I question the advisability of tampering with medicaid (conservative)

      I think both parties are full of bull with regards to medicare.... they are both claiming the other is out to end it when in fact they both are.

      I beleive that there are un-intended consquences to Obama care, and example would be the "gap" that some seniors will find themselves in. Another would be that 30% of companies surveyed have stated that they will dump private healthcare and put them on the Obama care rolls. AND most important to me are these two things, firstis the fact that the IRS now has the power to ensure that you have adequate health care (by whose standards?) and fine you if you don't. Second that it is not against our constitutional rights to have the government mandate that expense. Since this precident has been set, you can expect more to follow... perhaps even a law that50% of your net salary to pay down the debt will be required. Then you get to pay your bills.

      As far as fair is concerned when has that ever bothered you and your continued assualt on me as a that you hate so much????

      July 5, 2011 at 7:21 pm |
      • jean2009

        You do know that sometimes that threat is not a bad thing?

        Back when the drug mandate for seniors came about our own drug coverage through a retiree plan was dropped. They dropped coverage gave back the cost in an increased pension benefits to cover buying Part D, and that turned out to be a better deal than what we were paying for their retiree drug premium....by several hundred dollars a year.Not to mention the co-pay.

        And the Bush Administration did not fund their Part D mandate for senior...oh please don't say it wasn't a mandate...unless you are a millionaire it was a mandate.

        Actually this last year since a lot of drug prices for co-pays have come down considerably and many more generics are available...it will be better when they all come down...currently for my husband we do not pop through that donut hole ever year like we were.

        July 5, 2011 at 10:29 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Very simply jean ... what does that have to do with the point I was making?

        July 5, 2011 at 11:10 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        Oh and By the way I had no intention of saying anything about the mandate for part d.... I think mdeicare has turned into another system much like the tax code,,,, Both seem to have been designed to make lawyers rich. But you would not remember me saying anything about that in previous months and years. I will be caught in the gap ... so I have planned for it.

        July 5, 2011 at 11:26 pm |
      • Bill in STL

        One more thing, threats are never a good way to conduct politics or business....

        July 5, 2011 at 11:28 pm |
  36. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Bill in STL, My parents taught me the same thing; to work hard as I sought out what could promote opportunity to advance myself from where THEY were! That meant educationally, socially and financially; and they worked hard to make sure we were educated well enough to compete with the world! However, even after all of that, I lived, worked and was hindered often, by those things that you choose to ignore, as have many African Americans! I see those same demons attacking this PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES!!

    July 5, 2011 at 11:49 pm |
    • Bill in STL

      What makes you think you are any different in any of those statements... With the exception of demons ... I saw many of the same attacking conservatives.... I choose not to call them demons though and there is the big difference between us... you ride your emotions ... I choose not to ...

      July 7, 2011 at 1:14 am |
  37. Liz Carter in Georgia

    I was 13 years old when Barack Obama was born; working part-time starting at 15, 16 and 17 during summers when school was out. So I started early in life looking for the thing that could or would promote opportunities that I could advance myself from where I was. College at 18; working in an insurance co. during that same time, working my course schedules around it. After college, no jobs available in my field right then, I ended up taking a temporary job with the government, which ended up a permanent one!

    July 6, 2011 at 12:04 am |
    • Bill in STL

      I was 14, so what has that gpot to do with it .... I was working in the hay fields and de-tassling corn by the age of 8, When I was 12 I started woeking in a local pharmacy as a soda fountain persom.. still doing the other ... Had school as well... At 18 I was working in a can factory while attendong technical school ... school all day and work at night then the home work. Took me 4 years to get into my field and then I started at the very very bottom. The story sounds the same... why do you think you are so unique?

      July 7, 2011 at 1:19 am |
  38. Liz Carter in Georgia

    So don't you think for one minute that whatever accomplishments I did make was just GIVEN to me! I worked, but was not afforded all that I feel I should have gotten! I 'hung in there' and stayed, 32 years. That's why I'm appaulled that the double-standards, class, inequality, and hate is still existing in the the government! I'm not shocked but appaulled, that the evil still lurks so thick, it's hindering the full and complete record of accomplishments or strides the President is making! It's a FLASHBACK!

    July 6, 2011 at 12:24 am |
    • Bill in STL

      Teh government is made up of people Liz, of all stripes.... you can't blame the government... you have to blame the people and not all of them are conservatives....

      July 7, 2011 at 1:20 am |
  39. Liz Carter in Georgia

    You can keep arrogantly talking down to me and anyone else on this blog, that's ok! You only show or validate the existance of subtle 'character' I've been used to rebutting or fighting all my life! I know you're all still out here, except now, since you've written your thesises and dissertations on POLITICS TODAY, all of sudden, and got your degrees, you're hiding under a fake beaureacratic, polical cover! Where were all of you politicians and strategists when BUSH was in there pushing us over the cliff?

    July 6, 2011 at 12:43 am |
    • Bill in STL

      That is our preception Liz, if you feel that I am arrogant then so be it! I can tell you that I have been trying toconverse with you on many topics, but your preceptions keep getting in the way. I havenever used any of the words you have used to describe me against you... I have said tghe words like socialist, butface it, thats what you are. I think you are seeing, or reading more into it than really is there....at leas as far as our conversations go.... Did you see the quote I posted to Jean from Thomas Jefferson??? You should read it, as a matter of fact I will copy it here for you.

      Finally a thought from Thomas Jefferson.. lets see if you can figure it out.. Doe it apply ???

      The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.

      This still applies to day and to all people active in their parties politics and not the good of the country.

      July 7, 2011 at 1:27 am |
  40. Bill in STL

    I think I am done here ... Some day Liz I hope we can use our differences to make a positive impact... but as it stand right now I have little hope of that.

    July 7, 2011 at 1:28 am |
  41. Liz Carter in Georgia

    I never intended to portray myself as unique. If that's what you think, so be it! I was only trying to show that many, many of us Americans; OK.. DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS and INDEPENDENTS are and were working people! The majority of us weren't looking for handouts! We're the bread and butter that sustains the government! The taxes we pay into the government sustains a major portion of medicaid, medicare, social security, food stamps, education, elderly care, etc., anyway! The feds 'socially' distribute it.

    July 7, 2011 at 12:23 pm |
  42. Liz Carter in Georgia

    I HAVE questioned my Party for even considering taking away such Taxpayer funded 'entitlements', which have been the ONLY resources sustaining, just barely I might add, the nations' impoverished, disabled, elderly, children, as well as the disenfranchised, in the wake of extending the BUSH taxcuts for the most wealthy Americans and continuing to distribute taxpayers' money in subsidies to BIG OIL! That IS a greedy Republicans' position and they're boo'ing many weak Democrats to go along with that thinking.

    July 7, 2011 at 12:59 pm |
    • Jay in NC

      Barry is the one that extended the President Bush tax cuts. He also gave big breaks to oil companies.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:56 pm |
  43. Liz Carter in Georgia

    Oh, he did it all by himself, didn't he Jay? With no coersion from the REPUBLICANS in the House or the Senate huh? With no help to push it on across to fruition by his own scary constituents of his own DEMOCRATIC Pary?!? Not to speak of the coersion, pressure and I wouldn't be surprised if there were possible threats for those to continue, from the greedy, selfish wealthy Americans and Moguls! Yep, President OBAMA did it all by himself! Well, we don't need Congress anymore then do we? That'll save money!

    July 7, 2011 at 4:09 pm |